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#1
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Resource for choosing a plane?
So, I've decided to go for my first airplane. As I get started looking for
"the" airplane, I'm hoping I can find some help here in narrowing my choices. The more I look, the more overwhelmed I get. I'm starting to think that finding & buying the damn thing will be anticlimactic--deciding *what* to buy is the hard part!! What I'd really like to find is some sort of direct comparison tool--like you find in an auto magazine, say--such as a table with columns listing features, with added commentary on each model's pros and cons. From reading this group, I've found a couple of browsing tools, but nothing that really hits the mark. Suggestions? Ideally, I'd really like an online database that I can play with different parameters and see different results.... While I've got your eye, I may as well solicit direct advice, too. All the opinions I've formed so far are written in Jell-O, so please poke holes in any misconceptions you may spot. Me: ~4,200 hours: mostly in heavies (various C-135 models); a few hundred in USAF trainers (T-37/T-38); and about 150 in GA SEL airplanes (Cessnas, Pipers, and Grummans). PP/SEL, CP/MEL, Instrument, & ATP tickets. My only GA complex time is the ~4.5 in the Seneca I took my ATP in. What I've eliminated: - Twin: in my budget range, twins seem to double (or more) operating expense for little if any performance gain--redundancy seems to be the real value-added for entry-level twins. Not that I'm knocking redundancy, but this prospect will be a wallet-strain as it is. - Experimentals/Homebuilts/Warbirds: I don't have the fortitude to deal with the idiosyncrasies of non-certificated. First time out calls for baby steps. - Turbines/Floats/Fabric wings/anything else "weird": baby steps again. - Combine all of the above: I've eliminated everything that's NOT a certificated, piston, SEL w/ metal hull/wings. Assumptions/Considerations: - I will be starting to fly soon w/ a local club that has Cessnas (fixed and c/s prop models) and Arrows--in addition to currency (I haven't flown GA for 8+ years, and my last heavy flight was February [now in staff job ]), I plan to use that time to get comfortable in a small airplane again, comfortable with a c/s prop, etc. - I'm less concerned about acquisition cost than recurring costs--especially if I can find a circumstance where spending a bit more up-front buys a plane requiring less outlay for maintenance, insurance, whatever. I've set a ceiling of $100K, but that's only a notional number at this point. All things being equal, cheaper is better, of course.... - I've had mixed information on just "how much" extra maintenance (read: $$$) is required on a retract vs fixed gear, and/or c/s vs fixed prop. What about turbo-charging? I really need to learn in this area.... - I have no idea what my insurance situation will be; I've been assuming that any time-in-type requirements won't be too restrictive given my experience, and that I'll be able to get that time w/ an instructor easily enough. - I live in Colorado Springs. Airport elevations here run between ~6,000' and ~7,000', and I'm told 10,000'+ density altitude is commonplace in the summer. Do I need turbo-charging? - I want a "real" four-seater, whether that means a heavy-lifting four-seat or a six-seat. I'm also pretty broad across the shoulders, and not small in any dimension (6'0", 250#), so comfort is a consideration. - I want reasonable speed--150 knots-ish seems about right, more is better.... - I prefer low-wing, but that's a marginal distinction for me. I do wonder if I'll ever get the urge to land on grass/gravel/etc, in which case I assume I'd want the high-wing w/ fixed gear, yes? Thoughts: It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that! That brings me back to my original request, for a means to make direct comparisons between the various choices out there--I'm having trouble determining what & how I need to make trade-offs without that sort of tool.... Thanks for any help! -- Doug "Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight Zone" (my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change to contact me) |
#2
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Resource for choosing a plane?
Douglas Paterson wrote:
What I'd really like to find is some sort of direct comparison tool--like you find in an auto magazine, say--such as a table with columns listing features, with added commentary on each model's pros and cons. From reading this group, I've found a couple of browsing tools, but nothing that really hits the mark. Suggestions? I know of nothing out there. What I did when I was shopping for my first aircraft was to buy a copy of Bill Clarke's "The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to Used Airplanes" and make lists of possible candidates. You should be able to throw together a table or spreadsheet of possibilities. There won't be too many singles that fit all of your conditions. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
#3
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Resource for choosing a plane?
Doug.. sounds like you've narrowed it down correctly..
based on your "size" a Turbo Arrow may be too small.. same for the Mooney's. "If I were you", I'd set my sights on a Turbo Bonanza (yes I think you want turbo if you are planning on flying anywhere west of Denver) B-36TCs are not "cheap" but might be found in the under $150K range. I am (retired) based out of Las Vegas and fly Seneca II (Turbo) on a regular basis. Normally aspirated Arrow or Bonanza (285HP V35B) do just fine, but climbs are anemic in summer if near max gross weight. A Turbo Lance (Cherokee 6) may get the "heavy lift" you seek, but not as fast. BT "Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... So, I've decided to go for my first airplane. As I get started looking for "the" airplane, I'm hoping I can find some help here in narrowing my choices. The more I look, the more overwhelmed I get. I'm starting to think that finding & buying the damn thing will be anticlimactic--deciding *what* to buy is the hard part!! What I'd really like to find is some sort of direct comparison tool--like you find in an auto magazine, say--such as a table with columns listing features, with added commentary on each model's pros and cons. From reading this group, I've found a couple of browsing tools, but nothing that really hits the mark. Suggestions? Ideally, I'd really like an online database that I can play with different parameters and see different results.... While I've got your eye, I may as well solicit direct advice, too. All the opinions I've formed so far are written in Jell-O, so please poke holes in any misconceptions you may spot. Me: ~4,200 hours: mostly in heavies (various C-135 models); a few hundred in USAF trainers (T-37/T-38); and about 150 in GA SEL airplanes (Cessnas, Pipers, and Grummans). PP/SEL, CP/MEL, Instrument, & ATP tickets. My only GA complex time is the ~4.5 in the Seneca I took my ATP in. What I've eliminated: - Twin: in my budget range, twins seem to double (or more) operating expense for little if any performance gain--redundancy seems to be the real value-added for entry-level twins. Not that I'm knocking redundancy, but this prospect will be a wallet-strain as it is. - Experimentals/Homebuilts/Warbirds: I don't have the fortitude to deal with the idiosyncrasies of non-certificated. First time out calls for baby steps. - Turbines/Floats/Fabric wings/anything else "weird": baby steps again. - Combine all of the above: I've eliminated everything that's NOT a certificated, piston, SEL w/ metal hull/wings. Assumptions/Considerations: - I will be starting to fly soon w/ a local club that has Cessnas (fixed and c/s prop models) and Arrows--in addition to currency (I haven't flown GA for 8+ years, and my last heavy flight was February [now in staff job ]), I plan to use that time to get comfortable in a small airplane again, comfortable with a c/s prop, etc. - I'm less concerned about acquisition cost than recurring costs--especially if I can find a circumstance where spending a bit more up-front buys a plane requiring less outlay for maintenance, insurance, whatever. I've set a ceiling of $100K, but that's only a notional number at this point. All things being equal, cheaper is better, of course.... - I've had mixed information on just "how much" extra maintenance (read: $$$) is required on a retract vs fixed gear, and/or c/s vs fixed prop. What about turbo-charging? I really need to learn in this area.... - I have no idea what my insurance situation will be; I've been assuming that any time-in-type requirements won't be too restrictive given my experience, and that I'll be able to get that time w/ an instructor easily enough. - I live in Colorado Springs. Airport elevations here run between ~6,000' and ~7,000', and I'm told 10,000'+ density altitude is commonplace in the summer. Do I need turbo-charging? - I want a "real" four-seater, whether that means a heavy-lifting four-seat or a six-seat. I'm also pretty broad across the shoulders, and not small in any dimension (6'0", 250#), so comfort is a consideration. - I want reasonable speed--150 knots-ish seems about right, more is better.... - I prefer low-wing, but that's a marginal distinction for me. I do wonder if I'll ever get the urge to land on grass/gravel/etc, in which case I assume I'd want the high-wing w/ fixed gear, yes? Thoughts: It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that! That brings me back to my original request, for a means to make direct comparisons between the various choices out there--I'm having trouble determining what & how I need to make trade-offs without that sort of tool.... Thanks for any help! -- Doug "Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight Zone" (my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change to contact me) |
#4
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Resource for choosing a plane?
There is really not much to choose from that meets all of your criteria
in the under $100K category. Someone makes a real nice turboprop conversion for the Cessna 210. I forget the manufacturer but I had a chance to gawk at one when it stopped in for fuel a couple of months ago. Based on the numbers that aircraft would fit your profile fairly well, except it would exceed $100K. |
#5
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Resource for choosing a plane?
Pathfinder/Dakota/Turbo Dakota may give you the most bang for your buck
while filling most if not all of your requirements. $100,000 will give you several to pick from. Jim |
#6
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Resource for choosing a plane?
Pathfinder/Dakota/Turbo Dakota may give you the most bang for your buck
while filling most if not all of your requirements. $100,000 will give you several to pick from. My thoughts exactly. It's not *quite* 150 knots, (more like 140, in our Pathfinder), but it's a true 4-place plane (1400 pound useful load) that can be landed on grass comfortably. If you have any detailed questions about the breed, fell free to ask. (Also, check this site out: http://www.pa28.com/cherokee235/home.htm ) -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#7
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Resource for choosing a plane?
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#8
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Resource for choosing a plane?
kontiki wrote:
Someone makes a real nice turboprop conversion for the Cessna 210. I forget the manufacturer but I had a chance to gawk at one when it stopped in for fuel a couple of months ago. Based on the numbers that aircraft would fit your profile fairly well, except it would exceed $100K. This: http://www.onaircraft.com/Silver%20Eagle.htm |
#9
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Resource for choosing a plane?
"Douglas Paterson" wrote: Thoughts: It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that! A turbo Cesnna 210 would fit the bill for everything but fuel economy. A turbo 182RG would be a good cheaper, slower alternative. Given your high altitude surroundings, a turbo would seem to be a must. -- Dan C-172RG at BFM |
#10
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Resource for choosing a plane?
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:28:17 -0700, "Douglas Paterson"
wrote: So, I've decided to go for my first airplane. As I get started looking for "the" airplane, I'm hoping I can find some help here in narrowing my choices. The more I look, the more overwhelmed I get. I'm starting to think that finding & buying the damn thing will be anticlimactic--deciding *what* to buy is the hard part!! Actually, deciding which plane to buy is the easy part! The hard part is finding one with the right features (panel, paint, interior, engine), good condition, and at the right price. What I'd really like to find is some sort of direct comparison tool--like you find in an auto magazine, say--such as a table with columns listing features, See risingup.com for a list of manufacturers performance claims. Thoughts: It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that! With the high DA's I would consider a turbo. A turbo Lance will probably be the lowest cost 6-place turbo. You are correct to be more concerned about op costs than acquisition costs. Minus cost of money, you will get your acquisition costs back when you sell. Op costs can be dramatic if maintenance is considered. I imagine you will pay $2k/year for insurance on a $100-125k 6-seater. Fuel costs close to $4.00/gallon @ 16gph = $64/hr. Hangars are $2-600 per month at many airports. Factoryengines.com lists an overhaul on a TIO540 engine (for the Turbo Lance) at $40k. Annuals and misc maintenance will probably be several thousand more per year. Bottom line, you can easily spend $15-20k/year owning, maintaining, and operating a complex 6-place. Good luck, and have fun searching! Nathan |
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