French block airlift of British troops to Basra

(Kevin Brooks) wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote in message . ..
: (Kevin Brooks) wrote:
:
: :That would appear to be a restatement of an old maxim. True enough
: :that troops the world over do grumble; my mistake for using the word
: :"unique", as opposed to maybe "typical of". ISTR it was one of your
: fficers who was somewhat amazed that US troops tended to have to be
: :told the "why" of their orders, as opposed to the quaint "yes, sir,
: :three bags full, sir" type of response to which he was accustomed...
:
: US troops are trained to expect and get explanations of what they're
: doing and why. It's the only way they can intelligently fulfill their
: orders and know when initiative in the field is and is not
: appropriate.
:
:"Are trained"? No, Fred,

"Are trained". Yes, Brooks,

:this tendancy was established long before the
:more recent concentration on "auftragstactik" (or however the hell it
:is spelled in the original German). Comments on this date back to at
:least the First World War, and it was more a result of the US practice
f depending upon citizen soldiers, along with the rather independent
:streak to be found in Americans who deplored the idea of being placed
:below anyone on a social, or for that matter military, ladder. ISTR
:reading that it is a trait shared with Aussie troops who frequently
:displayed it to their British superiors.

Well, things have changed here in the last century (and not
necessarily always for the better). A lot of effort has been spent
teaching people NOT to think over the last half-century or so, more's
the pity....

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"William Black" wrote in message ...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

The price of champagne and decent cheese would drop even lower.

French wine is all from California vines and we can't buy French cheese.

And the Californian vines came from where originally?

I've tried that stuff they sell as 'domestic champagne' in the USA,
including the stuff made by Mumm, which chemical plant makes it?

Not being able to buy French cheese is a cruel and unusual punishment...

Try the Korbel. This is one explanation of the phylloxeria/vine
question. I believe the vines mentioned under "Statehood and the Gold
Rush" in Amador and El Dorado counties are still the original
rootstock.

http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/wi...ifhistory.html

STATEHOOD AND THE GOLD RUSH - 1848

California becomes a territory of the U.S.A. in 1848. The same year
John Agustus Sutter in the Sierra Foothills writes General Vallejo
that "I have made the discovery of a gold mine which, as far as we
have investigated, is extraordinarily rich." Hordes of miners arrived
in 1849, and wanted wine. The new Zinfandel was planted, along with
the Mission, and was very popular in Amador and El Dorado counties.

Wine C - 1995 Amador County Zinfandel by Sobon Estate; grapes are from
Fiddletown, named after those who entertained the miners. $15.


THE "Father of California Viticulture" ARRIVES

Hungarian-born "Count" Agoston Haraszthy plants the world's largest
vineyard at his Buena Vista winery, established in 1857. California
has been a state for seven years. He imports 100,000 vines of 300
varieties. His wines replace those of General Vallejo as California's
best.

Wine D - 1994 Buena Vista Cabernet Sauvignon from the Carneros
district, $16.


NAPA VALLEY'S FIRST COMMERCIAL VINTNER

German journalist Charles Krug learns winegrowing from Count Haraszthy
& marries a relative of General Vallejo. His bride's dowry includes
land near St. Helena, where he plants vines and in 1861 becomes the
Napa Valley's first commercial vintner.

Wine E - 1995 Charles Krug Merlot, Napa Vly., $15


THE SEVENTY-YEAR SLUMP - 1880 to 1950

1880 - The insect phylloxera devastates California vineyards. Charles
Krug pioneers the solution, grafting the vines onto resistant
rootstock from phylloxera's place of origin, New England.


http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/wi...01/051001.html

The next 40 years sealed the deal. The phylloxera insect ravaged the
vineyards. Then, Prohibition shut down the wineries. Yet, the vine
wouldn't go away. The 70,OOO acres of vines in 1919 fell to 21,000 by
1971. There were no fine red table wines labelled Zinfandel, Then, a
college English professor made some home Zin that started a
revolution. I interviewed him 11 years ago, and here's what he told
me.

As a graduate student at U.C. Berkeley in 1954, Charles Myers
(pictured) couldn't afford good table wines, so he started making his
own. In 1963 he obtained some old-vine Zinfandel grapes from the
Sierra Foothill's Deaver Ranch in Amador County. The resulting wine
was unlike any Zinfandel made previously. The word spread rapidly. The
potential of Zin to make fine reds was clear.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
Speaking of the Free Polish units fighting in North Africa:

formed from prisoners in the USSR (following hitler's attack on it), thru
iran, iraq, palestine to egypt.


Thanks for that. I once knew a Polish woman in England who had
traveled the same route as a girl: from Lvov to Siberia to Persia (I
think that's Iran) to Egypt, thence to England where she had
relatives.

The story she told was this: that President Roosevelt swapped M-1
rifles for Poles, one rifle = one Pole. This could of course have been
a wild tale based on her knowledge of Lend Lease, but it's interesting
that she believed it.

It never occurred to me that Stalin was in the business of swapping
perfectly good soldiers to the west, even if there was a rifle in it!

i agree


(Lvov I believe is now in Ukraine. Poland emerged from the war a bit
smaller and shifted to the westward. At the time it was called "The
Country on Rollerskates.")

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:25:34 +0000 (UTC), "William Black"
wrote:

Not being able to buy French cheese is a cruel and unusual punishment...

I can see a future law:

ALL CHEESE PRODUCED IN THE US TERRITORY OF FRANCE MUST BE SOLD IN
SEALED PACKAGES CONTAINING INDIVIDUALLY WRAPPED SLICES.

Fred J. McCall wrote in message . ..
(Kevin Brooks) wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote in message . ..
: (Kevin Brooks) wrote:
:
: :That would appear to be a restatement of an old maxim. True enough
: :that troops the world over do grumble; my mistake for using the word
: :"unique", as opposed to maybe "typical of". ISTR it was one of your
: fficers who was somewhat amazed that US troops tended to have to be
: :told the "why" of their orders, as opposed to the quaint "yes, sir,
: :three bags full, sir" type of response to which he was accustomed...
:
: US troops are trained to expect and get explanations of what they're
: doing and why. It's the only way they can intelligently fulfill their
: orders and know when initiative in the field is and is not
: appropriate.
:
:"Are trained"? No, Fred,

"Are trained". Yes, Brooks,

Duh. Context is really beyond you, isn't it Fred?


:this tendancy was established long before the
:more recent concentration on "auftragstactik" (or however the hell it
:is spelled in the original German). Comments on this date back to at
:least the First World War, and it was more a result of the US practice
f depending upon citizen soldiers, along with the rather independent
:streak to be found in Americans who deplored the idea of being placed
:below anyone on a social, or for that matter military, ladder. ISTR
:reading that it is a trait shared with Aussie troops who frequently
:displayed it to their British superiors.

Well, things have changed here in the last century (and not
necessarily always for the better). A lot of effort has been spent
teaching people NOT to think over the last half-century or so, more's
the pity....

Finished your sermon yet? Now what does the manner in which we train
troops today have to do with a discussion of a historical factor like
the fact that US troops have demonstrated a tendency to want to know
the "why" (and not for the reasons that they do today)?

Brooks

(Kevin Brooks) wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote in message . ..
: (Kevin Brooks) wrote:
:
: :Fred J. McCall wrote in message . ..
: : (Kevin Brooks) wrote:
: :
: : :That would appear to be a restatement of an old maxim. True enough
: : :that troops the world over do grumble; my mistake for using the word
: : :"unique", as opposed to maybe "typical of". ISTR it was one of your
: : fficers who was somewhat amazed that US troops tended to have to be
: : :told the "why" of their orders, as opposed to the quaint "yes, sir,
: : :three bags full, sir" type of response to which he was accustomed...
: :
: : US troops are trained to expect and get explanations of what they're
: : doing and why. It's the only way they can intelligently fulfill their
: : orders and know when initiative in the field is and is not
: : appropriate.
: :
: :"Are trained"? No, Fred,
:
: "Are trained". Yes, Brooks,
:
uh. Context is really beyond you, isn't it Fred?

I don't know. Is context Fred?

Duh, Cognition is really beyond you, isn't it, Kevin?

[Note comma above, which changes meaning from the phrase "isn't it
Kevin".]

: :this tendancy was established long before the
: :more recent concentration on "auftragstactik" (or however the hell it
: :is spelled in the original German). Comments on this date back to at
: :least the First World War, and it was more a result of the US practice
: f depending upon citizen soldiers, along with the rather independent
: :streak to be found in Americans who deplored the idea of being placed
: :below anyone on a social, or for that matter military, ladder. ISTR
: :reading that it is a trait shared with Aussie troops who frequently
: :displayed it to their British superiors.
:
: Well, things have changed here in the last century (and not
: necessarily always for the better). A lot of effort has been spent
: teaching people NOT to think over the last half-century or so, more's
: the pity....
:
:Finished your sermon yet? Now what does the manner in which we train
:troops today have to do with a discussion of a historical factor like
:the fact that US troops have demonstrated a tendency to want to know
:the "why" (and not for the reasons that they do today)?

Feel free to turn the question around and ask it the other way, too.
What does the fact that US troops have demonstrated a tendency in the
past have to do with how they are trained today?

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"captain!" wrote in message
.ca...

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
Speaking of the Free Polish units fighting in North Africa:

formed from prisoners in the USSR (following hitler's attack on it),
thru
iran, iraq, palestine to egypt.


Thanks for that. I once knew a Polish woman in England who had
traveled the same route as a girl: from Lvov to Siberia to Persia (I
think that's Iran) to Egypt, thence to England where she had
relatives.

The story she told was this: that President Roosevelt swapped M-1
rifles for Poles, one rifle = one Pole. This could of course have been
a wild tale based on her knowledge of Lend Lease, but it's interesting
that she believed it.

It never occurred to me that Stalin was in the business of swapping
perfectly good soldiers to the west, even if there was a rifle in it!


Lenin sold off priceless works of art for pennies.


i agree


(Lvov I believe is now in Ukraine. Poland emerged from the war a bit
smaller and shifted to the westward. At the time it was called "The
Country on Rollerskates.")

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"El *******o" El *******o@El *******o.com wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:25:34 +0000 (UTC), "William Black"
wrote:

Not being able to buy French cheese is a cruel and unusual punishment...

I can see a future law:

ALL CHEESE PRODUCED IN THE US TERRITORY OF FRANCE MUST BE SOLD IN
SEALED PACKAGES CONTAINING INDIVIDUALLY WRAPPED SLICES.

You forgot to add: AND MUST BE COOKED ON A CHARCOAL GRILL WHILST WRAPPED.

:

Slainte,
--
Paul H. Lemmen
Just because I choose to act civilised does not mean that I am.

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
It never occurred to me that Stalin was in the business of swapping
perfectly good soldiers to the west, even if there was a rifle in it!

Two things: one Stalin didn't give a damn about small numbers of
soldiers, as he had more than enough human meat to work with, and two,
Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

Rob

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message ...
airspace. How did they manage that? Out of Algeria or Morocco? What was the
Spanish reaction to such incursions? Did the RAF have a presence in Gibraltar

I don't think the Spanish would mind. The regime there was Franco's
fascists, who had come to power with military support from the German
Condor Legion a few years earlier in the Spanish civil war.

Rob