A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Taurus glider for sale



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old May 21st 19, 07:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,173
Default Taurus glider for sale

My thoughts are.......UV degradation of the fibers is the prime reason for the white coating (to reduce UV getting to fibers).
Ever see synthetic ropes out in UV? Most are white, but the UV destroyes them, thus strength goes to poop. Same for a lot of plastic woven tarps.
Not saying I am correct, just some observations.....
Ads
  #52  
Old May 21st 19, 08:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
James Thomson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Taurus glider for sale

At 18:15 21 May 2019, ripacheco1967 wrote:
Don't scare me now.=20
50=C2=BAC (122=C2=BAF) is VERY EASY to reach in Florida.
You mean to tell me all those trailers sitting out in Florida are slowly
ba=
king their gliders into oblivion?

The Scheuffler L285 resin widely used in German and Polish gliders requires

to be heat treated at not less than 54C (129F) before the aircraft is
flown.
The same resin is heat treated at 80C when used for power aircraft which
have to operate at higher ambient temperatures.

  #53  
Old May 21st 19, 08:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Taurus glider for sale

Aside from gliders, the only other composite aircraft I've flown have been the Diamond DA20 and DA40, both of which have temp activated disks on the seat bulkhead. the color changes when the inside temperature exceeds 131 degrees F. There are also placards stating the temperature limitations warning of possible structural failure if flown when the temp has been exceeded, granted they mean flying it if the aircraft is that hot. But still, if the manufacturer states there is a danger, there must be one. I know my POH in the gliders I've flown state temperature limitations, though I've not seen any fancy temp sensitive color turn tapes glued in the cockpit of any glider..
  #54  
Old May 21st 19, 09:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Taurus glider for sale

There is a bunch of data on MGS epoxy here. www.cstsales.com/mgs_epoxy.html

I wouldn’t worry about any gliders stores in Florida or the Mojave desert.
  #55  
Old May 21st 19, 09:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Thomas Greenhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Taurus glider for sale

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 11:15:21 AM UTC-7, ripacheco1967 wrote:
Don't scare me now.
50ºC (122ºF) is VERY EASY to reach in Florida.
You mean to tell me all those trailers sitting out in Florida are slowly baking their gliders into oblivion?


Keep in mind that I was using SC-14 resin as an example, and although likely similar to the SC-14, I don't know exactly which resin glider manufacturers use.
Realistically, short exposure to 50 C while in the trailer (not under load) won't do major damage the glider. However, at significantly higher temperatures or under load, some damage might occur.

UV light causes widespread electron jumps due to its short wavelength (without high enough quantum energies that they have the same effect as XRays/Gamma radiation) and hence does not readily penetrate anything. So, although composites may be damaged if directly subjected to UV light, any thin layer of anything between the structural composite and UV light will be sufficient, it doesn't need to be white.

Thomas
  #56  
Old May 21st 19, 10:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,267
Default Taurus glider for sale

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 11:16:45 AM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
My thoughts are.......UV degradation of the fibers is the prime reason for the white coating (to reduce UV getting to fibers).
Ever see synthetic ropes out in UV? Most are white, but the UV destroyes them, thus strength goes to poop. Same for a lot of plastic woven tarps.
Not saying I am correct, just some observations.....


It's not the fibers, well not with fiberglass and carbon per-se, it's the epoxy resin that is the issue, including how failing epoxy causes the reinforcing fibers to break/degrade. Epoxy is highly prone to UV dammage, it sucks.

And yes the white is also needed to keep the temperature down.

Hard to say there is a "prime reason" when addressing both UV exposure of the epoxy and high reflectivity to keep temperature low are both necessary.
  #57  
Old May 21st 19, 10:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default Taurus glider for sale

My Libelle POH includes a section that discusses various temperature considerations for the fiberglass construction of the glider. Some interesting temperature recommendations include:
Storage in enclosed or open trailer - 100 C
Working on a wing suspended end to end on sawhorses - 85 C max
Assembled glider on the ground - 82 C max
In normal flight - 70 C max
Aerotow - 61 C max
Winch launch - 60 C max

The POH also points out that storage at any temp between 54 C and 80 C "is like a tempering action that will increase the full load limit of the structure. No further profit" will be obtained at temperatures above 80 C.

Robert


On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 2:47:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Aside from gliders, the only other composite aircraft I've flown have been the Diamond DA20 and DA40, both of which have temp activated disks on the seat bulkhead. the color changes when the inside temperature exceeds 131 degrees F. There are also placards stating the temperature limitations warning of possible structural failure if flown when the temp has been exceeded, granted they mean flying it if the aircraft is that hot. But still, if the manufacturer states there is a danger, there must be one. I know my POH in the gliders I've flown state temperature limitations, though I've not seen any fancy temp sensitive color turn tapes glued in the cockpit of any glider.


  #58  
Old May 21st 19, 10:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Thomas Greenhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Taurus glider for sale

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 2:18:43 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 11:16:45 AM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
My thoughts are.......UV degradation of the fibers is the prime reason for the white coating (to reduce UV getting to fibers).
Ever see synthetic ropes out in UV? Most are white, but the UV destroyes them, thus strength goes to poop. Same for a lot of plastic woven tarps.
Not saying I am correct, just some observations.....


It's not the fibers, well not with fiberglass and carbon per-se, it's the epoxy resin that is the issue, including how failing epoxy causes the reinforcing fibers to break/degrade. Epoxy is highly prone to UV dammage, it sucks.

And yes the white is also needed to keep the temperature down.

Hard to say there is a "prime reason" when addressing both UV exposure of the epoxy and high reflectivity to keep temperature low are both necessary..


Yes, Darryl is right that the epoxy is what's prone to UV radiation, not the fibers. But at the end of the day the fibers don't do anything unless properly bonded.

Refer to another interesting paper on the effect of UV (and humidity) on composites: http://me.eng.sunysb.edu/~compmech/downloads/N29.pdf
29% decrease in transverse strength over 1000hrs of repeated UV and condensation. Luckily, only a small decrease in longitudinal strength was observed (most of the load bearing is longitudinal). Obviously the gel coat (or polyurethane) will reduce this effect, but dang!

Thomas
  #59  
Old May 22nd 19, 12:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 280
Default Taurus glider for sale

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:15:21 PM UTC-6, ripacheco1967 wrote:
Don't scare me now.
50ºC (122ºF) is VERY EASY to reach in Florida.
You mean to tell me all those trailers sitting out in Florida are slowly baking their gliders into oblivion?


No.

Tg of MGS epoxy, which most sailplane manufacturers use when post cured, is around 200 deg F.

Mike
  #60  
Old May 22nd 19, 12:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,112
Default Taurus glider for sale

Thomas Greenhill wrote on 5/21/2019 10:04 AM:
This is also why wise owners tend to prefer fiberglass-top trailers over metal ones in places that get very hot. As you can imagine, the inside of a metal trailer might easily exceed 50 degrees C (122 deg f) on a hot summer day.


Why won't that happen to a fiberglass top trailer? The ones I had got plenty hot
inside.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pipistrel Taurus: Club Glider? Phil Chidekel Soaring 3 February 29th 16 04:05 AM
Glider equipment for sale Roger Fowler[_3_] Soaring 0 August 2nd 14 06:05 PM
GLIDER 4 SALE BobD Soaring 0 March 16th 14 08:45 PM
Glider for Sale 5 ugly Soaring 1 December 8th 13 12:57 AM
Taurus Glider Ready for Flight Tests Michael Coates Soaring 5 April 5th 04 04:05 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.