I like my privatized airport :)

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message ws.com...
"Byron Miller" wrote in message
...
Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Well this may be just coincidence and in any event when n=2 not all that
much can be concluded, but for what it is worth I have had two experiences
when controllers gave me instructions while low altitude in IMC which could
have resulted in a controlled flight into terrain accident, and both
situations occurred at a non-towered field -- once at Morgantown WV KMGW and
once at Johnstown PA KJST.

Richard,

Perhaps I'm not following the juxtaposition. Are you saying that
contract tower controllers gave you these instructions, or that
FAA controllers gave you these instructions whilst you were operating
at a non-towered airport for which they provide approach/departure
services?

I have to admit the "proceed direct MGW" part might have caught
us. Thanks very much for the heads-up, we'll be on alert for that
kind of thing.

Cheers,
Sydney

"Byron Miller" wrote in message ...
I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Heck they even volunteer to the ground schools and give tours when the FAA
allows!

Just thought i'd throw that in

The big ATC privatization issue is not so much about the tower guys at
your little class D airports. The big worry is more about enroute
stuff, centers, approach, departure, clearance delivery and all of a
sudden everyone getting repeatedly billed large sums of money just for
flying thru some airspace handled by some private corporation that
will staff these positions with personnel the quality of a typical
computer tech support script-parrot.

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message ws.com...
In this case, there was a published DP with an initial climb to the right.
However, ATC gave me alternate takeoff instructions with a turn to the left,
and looking at the approach chart to MGW you can see that a left turn off of
runway 18 does indeed come uncomfortably close to terrain. MGW Tower
seemed unaware of the departure procedure, and in fact when I specifically
requested it I was told "Unable due to traffic -- Cleared for takeoff, Climb
on runway heading"

This is pretty scary. Did you follow this up somehow?

Also, Richard, excuse me for being obtuse but didn't you say these
incidents occured at *non* towered airports in your previous posts?

Did you mean to say "at airports with NF control towers"?

Cheers,
Sydney

Richard Kaplan wrote:


2. At JST on an ILS approach with weather intermittently below approach
minimums when I was inside the final approach fix I was given the
instruction "Alternate Missed Approach Instructions -- Proceed Direct
MGW" -- I was unable to confirm terrain clearance at such a busy time of
flight and the controller would not verify terrain clearance either (note I
was not on a vector and was below the MEA so he had no responsibility for
terrain clearance at that point if I accepted the instructions). After some
on-air discussion, the controller finally gave me a "Center assigned
heading" which reflected that Center verified terrain clearance.

Where do you learn this stuff? If ATC says to proceed direct to some
fix they damn sure do assume terrain separation responsibility.

BZN doesn't want radar for weather, they want a radar approach control.
The FAA will not buy and install it. If BZN buys and installs it the
FAA has already said that they will handle the radar. It would be
remoted to my facility in Billings. The same thing already happens now
in Missoula. Those radar controllers are in Spokane.

ISLIP wrote:

Now Bozeman wants radar. The FAA said install the radar


The tower at Groton Ct (KGON) is a contract tower . In talking to the
controllers they said the tower has no radar and the FAA will NOT
supply/install it for them, and their best source of weather is from a TV in
the cab. They rely on position reports & binoculars for traffic awareness


JD

Snowbird wrote:



Richard is saying that MGW has a published DP (presumably because it
does not meet that standard climb gradient), and the controller gave
him instructions which contravened the published DP. If there's a
published DP, there's usually a reason and one better follow it.

Is MGW a radar facility?

"One's Too Many" wrote in message
om...
"Byron Miller" wrote in message
...
I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any
more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Heck they even volunteer to the ground schools and give tours when the
FAA
allows!

Just thought i'd throw that in

The big ATC privatization issue is not so much about the tower guys at
your little class D airports. The big worry is more about enroute
stuff, centers, approach, departure, clearance delivery and all of a
sudden everyone getting repeatedly billed large sums of money just for
flying thru some airspace handled by some private corporation that
will staff these positions with personnel the quality of a typical
computer tech support script-parrot.


Given the FAA retains Certification and enforcement powers, which everyone
agrees is an inherently governmental function, the qualification scare
tactic is obviously a red herring.

Fees are a big issue but privatization doesn't have to mean the money earned
by private contractors comes from any source other than where it comes now.
It is very equitable to burden fuel with the fees; that way 777's pay more
than Cessna 150's, and no one would ever have to choose not to call a FSS,
ask for Flight Folowing or file IFR because they'd rather not incur the
cost. Just pay them out of those funds based on some formula. That isn't
rocket science.

I'm sure wages, job security and retirement pay is better for Federal
workers than the contractors but this has nothing to do with the tone of the
debate

-Greg

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

MRB, New Century (Olathe), Kansas (IXD)...do a Google search for
"non-federal control tower", there's a bunch.


Neither of those is designated as an NFCT on the current sectional. My
A/FDs are from 2001, but IXD is designated as an FAA Contract Tower, MRB as
an FAA tower.

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...

Nashua, NH (KASH) is a NFCT.


It's not designated as an NFCT on the current sectional, my 2001 A/FD
indicates it's an FAA Contract Tower.

Byron Miller wrote:
I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Heck they even volunteer to the ground schools and give tours when the FAA
allows!

Just thought i'd throw that in

Byron,

Have to admit years ago I went there on a couple student cross countries
and they couldn't have been friendlier. Very helpful. They honestly
seemed to enjoy their job and helping us "little guys". That perception
stuck with me for years...that's how good I thought they were.

The last two times I went there at night this past spring surprised me,
however. Both times I had to deal with a TOTALLY CLUELESS guy who,
IMHO, should NOT be in that cab. I won't go into details why, but it
came down to the fact he caused two separation issues, one of which
involved me, and just didn't seem to have sufficient grasp of what was
going on around him. He seemed to be (for lack of a better word) senile.

Of course, I responded to this message not to bash on one LNS
controller, but to point out that based on my experience, I agree with
you...there is no apparent difference in quality of service between FAA
vs. Contract towers. If anything, I think the contract guys are
friendlier overall.

That was certainly the case at KASH (Nashua NH) where I did a lot of
flying several years ago. Great guys (and gals). ASH handles more
traffic than MHT (Manchester, the air carrier airport to the north), and
they did it professionally, day in and out.

They were also great because they never used to mind me hanging out in
the cab with them on crummy weather days, while they played board games,
we watched brave souls ride the ILS, only to go missed in WOXOF
conditions, and I asked dumb pilot questions about ATC operations. Wish
I had those controllers at my home field.

-Doug

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Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
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