Killing the flagman at US Contest

It hasn't happened yet, but we are going to kill or maim the flagman if we don't change our ways. It's just a matter of time.

This has become my personal pet peeve. Over the years, I have personally observed a lot of gliders drop a wing and veer off the runway. And admittedly a number of times my observation was from the driver's seat. My own launching technique is better now so my odds of staying on the runway are not as bad as they used to be. Yet, I know it can happen again. It can happen to anyone.

The matter of how to avoid wing drop is not what this writing is about. That's for another thread. This is about the fact that it does happen. This thread is about a potentially serious consequence when it does. Having a serious veer off the runway is an uncommon event for sure. It's one of those things where all goes well so often that it's easy to be neglectful of the low probability yet high consequence risk scenario that plays out at every contest launch.

We were all trained that there should be a safety cone in front of the glider when we launch. That being a zone in which there are no people or objects that have the potential to convert an embarrassing non-event into a small or large catastrophe. At US contests this important need for a safety cone is routinely overlooked. The flagman stands and does his work in a dangerous location in front of the launch.

Our contest flagmen are volunteers. I, for one, am very appreciative of all of the contest volunteers. Without the dedicated work of the volunteers, contests wouldn't happen. Certainly, there is a high obligation to not put volunteers at risk.

The manner by which a glider can come off the runway varies dramatically. Often, the affected pilot is faced with a real dilemma that plays out in a matter of seconds. A wing is low, perhaps dragging on the runway. He believes he can lift the down wing if he simply persists a bit and waits for airspeed to come up. In the mean time he's beginning to veer. If he releases early, the matter is low energy and low consequence. If he holds on for a little longer, he thinks he can raise the wing yet his speed is increasing and the potential for adverse consequences increase perhaps with the square of velocity. Should the pilot fail to get to the release quickly enough and the wing stays low, the resulting veer will be high energy. The veer off the runway can occur at speeds that can do real damage. I've seen it happen.

In my, thus far, unsuccessful efforts to change contest practice in this regard, I've spoken to several different contest operations managers and I've also spoken to flagmen about the issue. I'm routinely pooh-poohed. The flagman will tell me that he can run out of the way if a wing is coming at him. One flagman told me that he can jump over the wing if he needs to. But wait a minute... what if the wing that is coming at him is coming at 30 or 40 MPH? What if it happens to be the high wing that is coming at him or the fuselage?

What I observe at contests is that wing drops are sufficiently rare that the flagman always becomes complacent (assuming he or she is aware of the hazard in the first place). As the towplane and glider roar by, he'll be sipping from his water bottle while maybe sauntering a few step out of the way.

If it were the case that our flagmen were selected for sprinting ability and if their practice was to swing the flag then immediately begin sprinting for the sidelines then perhaps the present hazard wouldn't be. Yet, that is never what happens. Requiring a sprint from the flagman at every launch would be an unreasonable expectation for sure. At any rate, few would have the endurance strength and athleticism to do 30 to 50 successive 25 yard sprints in launch time summer heat.

It isn't as if there is no alternative to using a flagman for launch control. There is an alternative that works extremely well and puts no one at risk in the safety cone. The launch controller stands aside the sailplane with a handheld radio as the glider is being hooked up and readied for launch.. The launch controller gives particular radio commands to take up slack and then a particular distinctive word sequence command to commence the launch. Barb Smith, who's served as operations manager at a few Parowan contests in recent years, seems to have pioneered this method. This is really a very good scheme. There is no double communication required. The launch controller is in a position to easily observe the towline slack and also very well observe the readiness of the wing runner, the glider and the glider pilot too.

I urge that we adopt the radio method of launch control at US contests. Let's not wait until we've killed the flagman.

I am staggered that it's still felt necessary to use a flagman/forward
signaller
when use of radio is so ubiquitous and the norm almost everywhere else?



At 21:04 29 June 2014, Steve Koerner wrote:
It hasn't happened yet, but we are going to kill or maim the flagman if
we
=
don't change our ways. It's just a matter of time. =20

This has become my personal pet peeve. Over the years, I have personally
o=
bserved a lot of gliders drop a wing and veer off the runway. And
admitted=
ly a number of times my observation was from the driver's seat. My own
la=
unching technique is better now so my odds of staying on the runway are
not=
as bad as they used to be. Yet, I know it can happen again. It can
happe=
n to anyone. =20

The matter of how to avoid wing drop is not what this writing is about.
Th=
at's for another thread. This is about the fact that it does happen.
This=
thread is about a potentially serious consequence when it does. Having
a
=
serious veer off the runway is an uncommon event for sure. It's one of
tho=
se things where all goes well so often that it's easy to be neglectful of
t=
he low probability yet high consequence risk scenario that plays out at
eve=
ry contest launch. =20

We were all trained that there should be a safety cone in front of the
glid=
er when we launch. That being a zone in which there are no people or
objec=
ts that have the potential to convert an embarrassing non-event into a
smal=
l or large catastrophe. At US contests this important need for a safety
c=
one is routinely overlooked. The flagman stands and does his work in a
dan=
gerous location in front of the launch.

Our contest flagmen are volunteers. I, for one, am very appreciative of
al=
l of the contest volunteers. Without the dedicated work of the
volunteers,=
contests wouldn't happen. Certainly, there is a high obligation to not
pu=
t volunteers at risk.

The manner by which a glider can come off the runway varies dramatically.

=
Often, the affected pilot is faced with a real dilemma that plays out in
a
=
matter of seconds. A wing is low, perhaps dragging on the runway. He
beli=
eves he can lift the down wing if he simply persists a bit and waits for
ai=
rspeed to come up. In the mean time he's beginning to veer. If he
releas=
es early, the matter is low energy and low consequence. If he holds on
for=
a little longer, he thinks he can raise the wing yet his speed is
increasi=
ng and the potential for adverse consequences increase perhaps with the
squ=
are of velocity. Should the pilot fail to get to the release quickly
enoug=
h and the wing stays low, the resulting veer will be high energy. The
vee=
r off the runway can occur at speeds that can do real damage. I've seen
it=
happen.

In my, thus far, unsuccessful efforts to change contest practice in this
re=
gard, I've spoken to several different contest operations managers and
I've=
also spoken to flagmen about the issue. I'm routinely pooh-poohed. The
f=
lagman will tell me that he can run out of the way if a wing is coming at
h=
im. One flagman told me that he can jump over the wing if he needs to.
B=
ut wait a minute... what if the wing that is coming at him is coming at
30
=
or 40 MPH? What if it happens to be the high wing that is coming at him
or=
the fuselage?

What I observe at contests is that wing drops are sufficiently rare that
th=
e flagman always becomes complacent (assuming he or she is aware of the
haz=
ard in the first place). As the towplane and glider roar by, he'll be
sipp=
ing from his water bottle while maybe sauntering a few step out of the
way.=
=20

If it were the case that our flagmen were selected for sprinting ability
an=
d if their practice was to swing the flag then immediately begin
sprinting
=
for the sidelines then perhaps the present hazard wouldn't be. Yet, that
i=
s never what happens. Requiring a sprint from the flagman at every
launch
=
would be an unreasonable expectation for sure. At any rate, few would
have=
the endurance strength and athleticism to do 30 to 50 successive 25 yard
s=
prints in launch time summer heat.=20

It isn't as if there is no alternative to using a flagman for launch
contro=
l. There is an alternative that works extremely well and puts no one at
ri=
sk in the safety cone. The launch controller stands aside the sailplane
wi=
th a handheld radio as the glider is being hooked up and readied for
launch=
.. The launch controller gives particular radio commands to take up
slack
a=
nd then a particular distinctive word sequence command to commence the
laun=
ch. Barb Smith, who's served as operations manager at a few Parowan
conte=
sts in recent years, seems to have pioneered this method. This is
really
=
a very good scheme. There is no double communication required. The
launch=
controller is in a position to easily observe the towline slack and also
v=
ery well observe the readiness of the wing runner, the glider and the
glide=
r pilot too. =20

I urge that we adopt the radio method of launch control at US contests.
Le=
t's not wait until we've killed the flagman.

On Sunday, June 29, 2014 5:04:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
It hasn't happened yet, but we are going to kill or maim the flagman if we don't change our ways. It's just a matter of time.



This has become my personal pet peeve. Over the years, I have personally observed a lot of gliders drop a wing and veer off the runway. And admittedly a number of times my observation was from the driver's seat. My own launching technique is better now so my odds of staying on the runway are not as bad as they used to be. Yet, I know it can happen again. It can happen to anyone.



The matter of how to avoid wing drop is not what this writing is about. That's for another thread. This is about the fact that it does happen. This thread is about a potentially serious consequence when it does. Having a serious veer off the runway is an uncommon event for sure. It's one of those things where all goes well so often that it's easy to be neglectful of the low probability yet high consequence risk scenario that plays out at every contest launch.



We were all trained that there should be a safety cone in front of the glider when we launch. That being a zone in which there are no people or objects that have the potential to convert an embarrassing non-event into a small or large catastrophe. At US contests this important need for a safety cone is routinely overlooked. The flagman stands and does his work in a dangerous location in front of the launch.



Our contest flagmen are volunteers. I, for one, am very appreciative of all of the contest volunteers. Without the dedicated work of the volunteers, contests wouldn't happen. Certainly, there is a high obligation to not put volunteers at risk.



The manner by which a glider can come off the runway varies dramatically. Often, the affected pilot is faced with a real dilemma that plays out in a matter of seconds. A wing is low, perhaps dragging on the runway. He believes he can lift the down wing if he simply persists a bit and waits for airspeed to come up. In the mean time he's beginning to veer. If he releases early, the matter is low energy and low consequence. If he holds on for a little longer, he thinks he can raise the wing yet his speed is increasing and the potential for adverse consequences increase perhaps with the square of velocity. Should the pilot fail to get to the release quickly enough and the wing stays low, the resulting veer will be high energy. The veer off the runway can occur at speeds that can do real damage. I've seen it happen.



In my, thus far, unsuccessful efforts to change contest practice in this regard, I've spoken to several different contest operations managers and I've also spoken to flagmen about the issue. I'm routinely pooh-poohed. The flagman will tell me that he can run out of the way if a wing is coming at him. One flagman told me that he can jump over the wing if he needs to. But wait a minute... what if the wing that is coming at him is coming at 30 or 40 MPH? What if it happens to be the high wing that is coming at him or the fuselage?



What I observe at contests is that wing drops are sufficiently rare that the flagman always becomes complacent (assuming he or she is aware of the hazard in the first place). As the towplane and glider roar by, he'll be sipping from his water bottle while maybe sauntering a few step out of the way.



If it were the case that our flagmen were selected for sprinting ability and if their practice was to swing the flag then immediately begin sprinting for the sidelines then perhaps the present hazard wouldn't be. Yet, that is never what happens. Requiring a sprint from the flagman at every launch would be an unreasonable expectation for sure. At any rate, few would have the endurance strength and athleticism to do 30 to 50 successive 25 yard sprints in launch time summer heat.



It isn't as if there is no alternative to using a flagman for launch control. There is an alternative that works extremely well and puts no one at risk in the safety cone. The launch controller stands aside the sailplane with a handheld radio as the glider is being hooked up and readied for launch. The launch controller gives particular radio commands to take up slack and then a particular distinctive word sequence command to commence the launch. Barb Smith, who's served as operations manager at a few Parowan contests in recent years, seems to have pioneered this method. This is really a very good scheme. There is no double communication required. The launch controller is in a position to easily observe the towline slack and also very well observe the readiness of the wing runner, the glider and the glider pilot too.



I urge that we adopt the radio method of launch control at US contests. Let's not wait until we've killed the flagman.

I agree- mostly.
The mirror is adequate to know when to take up slack.
When the rope is tight- we're going flying.
Stop the launch- wing down.
Radio only when unusual happens.
UH

Stop the launch- wing down.

I hope the full sequence includes the glider pilot releasing the rope
before the
wing goes down!


At 03:54 30 June 2014, wrote:
On Sunday, June 29, 2014 5:04:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
It hasn't happened yet, but we are going to kill or maim the flagman if
w=
e don't change our ways. It's just a matter of time. =20
=20
=20
=20
This has become my personal pet peeve. Over the years, I have
personally=
observed a lot of gliders drop a wing and veer off the runway. And
admitt=
edly a number of times my observation was from the driver's seat. My
own
=
launching technique is better now so my odds of staying on the runway are
n=
ot as bad as they used to be. Yet, I know it can happen again. It can
hap=
pen to anyone. =20
=20
=20
=20
The matter of how to avoid wing drop is not what this writing is about.

=
That's for another thread. This is about the fact that it does happen.
Th=
is thread is about a potentially serious consequence when it does.
Having
=
a serious veer off the runway is an uncommon event for sure. It's one of
t=
hose things where all goes well so often that it's easy to be neglectful
of=
the low probability yet high consequence risk scenario that plays out at
e=
very contest launch. =20
=20
=20
=20
We were all trained that there should be a safety cone in front of the
gl=
ider when we launch. That being a zone in which there are no people or
obj=
ects that have the potential to convert an embarrassing non-event into a
sm=
all or large catastrophe. At US contests this important need for a
safety=
cone is routinely overlooked. The flagman stands and does his work in a
d=
angerous location in front of the launch.
=20
=20
=20
Our contest flagmen are volunteers. I, for one, am very appreciative
of
=
all of the contest volunteers. Without the dedicated work of the
volunteer=
s, contests wouldn't happen. Certainly, there is a high obligation to
not
=
put volunteers at risk.
=20
=20
=20
The manner by which a glider can come off the runway varies
dramatically.=
Often, the affected pilot is faced with a real dilemma that plays out
in
=
a matter of seconds. A wing is low, perhaps dragging on the runway. He
be=
lieves he can lift the down wing if he simply persists a bit and waits
for
=
airspeed to come up. In the mean time he's beginning to veer. If he
rele=
ases early, the matter is low energy and low consequence. If he holds on
f=
or a little longer, he thinks he can raise the wing yet his speed is
increa=
sing and the potential for adverse consequences increase perhaps with the
s=
quare of velocity. Should the pilot fail to get to the release quickly
eno=
ugh and the wing stays low, the resulting veer will be high energy. The
v=
eer off the runway can occur at speeds that can do real damage. I've
seen
=
it happen.
=20
=20
=20
In my, thus far, unsuccessful efforts to change contest practice in
this
=
regard, I've spoken to several different contest operations managers and
I'=
ve also spoken to flagmen about the issue. I'm routinely pooh-poohed.
The=
flagman will tell me that he can run out of the way if a wing is coming
at=
him. One flagman told me that he can jump over the wing if he needs
to.
=
But wait a minute... what if the wing that is coming at him is coming at
3=
0 or 40 MPH? What if it happens to be the high wing that is coming at
him
=
or the fuselage?
=20
=20
=20
What I observe at contests is that wing drops are sufficiently rare
that
=
the flagman always becomes complacent (assuming he or she is aware of
the
h=
azard in the first place). As the towplane and glider roar by, he'll be
si=
pping from his water bottle while maybe sauntering a few step out of the
wa=
y. =20
=20
=20
=20
If it were the case that our flagmen were selected for sprinting
ability
=
and if their practice was to swing the flag then immediately begin
sprintin=
g for the sidelines then perhaps the present hazard wouldn't be. Yet,
that=
is never what happens. Requiring a sprint from the flagman at every
launc=
h would be an unreasonable expectation for sure. At any rate, few would
ha=
ve the endurance strength and athleticism to do 30 to 50 successive 25
yard=
sprints in launch time summer heat.=20
=20
=20
=20
It isn't as if there is no alternative to using a flagman for launch
cont=
rol. There is an alternative that works extremely well and puts no one
at
=
risk in the safety cone. The launch controller stands aside the
sailplane
=
with a handheld radio as the glider is being hooked up and readied for
laun=
ch. The launch controller gives particular radio commands to take up
slack=
and then a particular distinctive word sequence command to commence the
la=
unch. Barb Smith, who's served as operations manager at a few Parowan
con=
tests in recent years, seems to have pioneered this method. This is
reall=
y a very good scheme. There is no double communication required. The
laun=
ch controller is in a position to easily observe the towline slack and
also=
very well observe the readiness of the wing runner, the glider and the
gli=
der pilot too. =20
=20
=20
=20
I urge that we adopt the radio method of launch control at US contests.

=
Let's not wait until we've killed the flagman.

I agree- mostly.
The mirror is adequate to know when to take up slack.
When the rope is tight- we're going flying.
Stop the launch- wing down.
Radio only when unusual happens.
UH

On Monday, June 30, 2014 7:58:07 AM UTC-4, Gav Goudie wrote:
Stop the launch- wing down.



I hope the full sequence includes the glider pilot releasing the rope

before the

wing goes down!

Wing down is stop/hold. If tug pilot does not appear to respond, then release.
No need for stopping the operation to hook up again unless really needed.
Note this is a contest environment with pilots on the top of their game and not the local club operation.
UH

So in effect the glider is now in a not ready to launch configuration (the
wing
is on the ground and probably being held there by the wing runner) yet
everything is primed to enable it to launch including the tug pilot who has

150 - 260hp available in an instant.

Unfortunately being at the top of ones game doesn't mitigate the risk that

could develop from the the above scenario and one could provide lots of
evidence where the competition environment can create extra pressure where

basic airmanship and experience evaporate in an instant.

I am all for an efficient launching machine in comps but you have to keep
the
basics in check, relying solely on a visual cue/clue isn't really using all
the
options that are available.

Typical parlance that seems to work on grid launches I have been involved
with as used by the launch marshall goes something like:

"Tug GC, next glider is Discus on the left hand side"
"Tug GC take up slack"
Or
"Tug GC take up slack and hold" (if a relight or a landing tug is on late
finals
etc)
"Tug GC all out, all out" or "STOP STOP STOP" (delete as appropriate)

The tug/towplane pilot has not had to respond to any of this, his or her
actions or rather lack of actions will alert the launch marshall that
he/she has
an issue or is unable to comply leaving them entirely focussed on
configuring
his tug for the launch and keeping his/her eyes moving around the sky, the

runway ahead and glider behind for any conflicts.

GG

(Comp Pilot & Towplane/Comp Towplane Pilot)

At 12:32 30 June 2014, wrote:
On Monday, June 30, 2014 7:58:07 AM UTC-4, Gav Goudie wrote:
Stop the launch- wing down.



I hope the full sequence includes the glider pilot releasing the rope

before the

wing goes down!

Wing down is stop/hold. If tug pilot does not appear to respond, then
release.
No need for stopping the operation to hook up again unless really needed.
Note this is a contest environment with pilots on the top of their game
and
not the local club operation.
UH

On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:28:30 AM UTC-6, Gav Goudie wrote:

Typical parlance that seems to work on grid launches I have been involved
with as used by the launch marshall goes something like:

"Tug GC, next glider is Discus on the left hand side"
"Tug GC take up slack"
Or
"Tug GC take up slack and hold" (if a relight or a landing tug is on late
finals
etc)
"Tug GC all out, all out" or "STOP STOP STOP" (delete as appropriate)


I am not sure the system you are suggesting came across very well in your post.
I think you are saying that instead of using a signal relay person that you have a radio relay aka a Launch Marshall directing the tow plane.

It is probably a better idea than the signal relay person.
However the concern of course is to not clutter up the radio frequency so bad that aircraft (tow planes) in the pattern can't make adequate position reports with out stepping on each other transmissions.
Very doable, but all aspects of this procedure need to be considered for each site.

Brian
(Comp Pilot & Towplane/Comp Towplane Pilot) also.

Messages get clipped and formatted badly here for some reason?

Brian,

Basically yes.

The launch marshall is in charge of the grid and he directs each tug to
each
glider and then away.

Most operations I have been involved with have a dedicated launch frequency

and with typically 10 towplanes, clutter is not an issue.
A thorough briefing on towing and recovery routes to/from the drop zone
(and use of similar performance aircraft) and other normal eventualities
(aborted tow/blocked runway etc) reduces the amount of required radio calls

to almost nothing in some cases. On airfields with limited space a little
bit of
inter-towplane RT keeps it all ticking.

And having good tow pilots and a capable launch marshall makes a big
difference to getting the grid away safely and efficiently.

GG



At 15:59 30 June 2014, Brian wrote:
On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:28:30 AM UTC-6, Gav Goudie wrote:

Typical parlance that seems to work on grid launches I have been
involved

with as used by the launch marshall goes something like:

"Tug GC, next glider is Discus on the left hand side"
"Tug GC take up slack"
Or
"Tug GC take up slack and hold" (if a relight or a landing tug is on
late
finals
etc)
"Tug GC all out, all out" or "STOP STOP STOP" (delete as appropriate)


I am not sure the system you are suggesting came across very well in your
post.
I think you are saying that instead of using a signal relay person that
you
have a radio relay aka a Launch Marshall directing the tow plane.

It is probably a better idea than the signal relay person.
However the concern of course is to not clutter up the radio frequency so
bad that aircraft (tow planes) in the pattern can't make adequate
position
reports with out stepping on each other transmissions.
Very doable, but all aspects of this procedure need to be considered for
each site.

Brian
(Comp Pilot & Towplane/Comp Towplane Pilot) also.

I'm with Uncle Hank: The less chatter on the radio the less chance of a mistake, and leaves the radio available for emergencies ("RED PAWNEE 10 KNOTS FASTER!!!).

As a tuggie (and comp pilot) I prefer to base my decision to go on what I see, not on what someone else is directing (unless it's a STOP command, then It may be something I can't see) - and I can see if the rope is full out and the wings are level. At a comp, that's all I should need - the glider pilot ALWAYS has the option of releasing if he isn't ready!

In a club environment, add a nice rudder waggle, and all I really want the wing runner to do is watch for a problem and be prepared to stop the launch - I'm not going just because he thinks it time to fly!

On a related subject, I'm having a devil of a time convincing our club (non-comp, mainly also power pilots) glider pilots (including our friendly FAA reps!) to not stage at the very end of the runway, putting the initial part of the launch alongside other gliders, cars, spectators, dogs, etc. Aside from the problem of preventing the next gliders waiting to launch from gridding, the concept of a groundloop into the crowd seems inconceivable to these guys - and the usual answer is that they want all the runway available (we have a 2500' grass strip with good overruns and landable options in every direction).

Do other clubs have this problem? And how do you handle it, aside from stopping the launch and yelling at people (which is my usual response....).

Kirk
66

How about a light bar or light gun? Red - Stop/Hold, Yellow - Takeup
Slack, Green - GO!

Or car headlights? Steady on - Takeup Slack, Flashing - GO!

Now for my pet towing peeve: Takeup slack, STOP, GO. There's no need
to stop. The glider should be ready to launch when the rope is
attached. If the pilot needs more time, he should not have the rope
attached until he is ready. Or he should find another hobby. Rant off.

Dan Marotta

On 6/30/2014 10:29 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
I'm with Uncle Hank: The less chatter on the radio the less chance of a mistake, and leaves the radio available for emergencies ("RED PAWNEE 10 KNOTS FASTER!!!).

As a tuggie (and comp pilot) I prefer to base my decision to go on what I see, not on what someone else is directing (unless it's a STOP command, then It may be something I can't see) - and I can see if the rope is full out and the wings are level. At a comp, that's all I should need - the glider pilot ALWAYS has the option of releasing if he isn't ready!

In a club environment, add a nice rudder waggle, and all I really want the wing runner to do is watch for a problem and be prepared to stop the launch - I'm not going just because he thinks it time to fly!

On a related subject, I'm having a devil of a time convincing our club (non-comp, mainly also power pilots) glider pilots (including our friendly FAA reps!) to not stage at the very end of the runway, putting the initial part of the launch alongside other gliders, cars, spectators, dogs, etc. Aside from the problem of preventing the next gliders waiting to launch from gridding, the concept of a groundloop into the crowd seems inconceivable to these guys - and the usual answer is that they want all the runway available (we have a 2500' grass strip with good overruns and landable options in every direction).

Do other clubs have this problem? And how do you handle it, aside from stopping the launch and yelling at people (which is my usual response....).

Kirk
66