#1 Piston Fighter was British

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 7/1/03 1:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Precisely. On balance the P-51 might have been better, or more
reliable (even then it had it's share of teething problems), but the
problem was recognised and was being addressed before it showed up.

Gavin Bailey

On balance the attrition was in allied heavy bombers losses deep penetration.
The Luftwaffe lost relatively few fighters against heavy bombers over Berlin
with no fighter cover at all. Before the P-51, the Allied situation in the air
was a losing proposition for the bombers . I guess you have it have flown
bombers to fully understand that.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 7/1/03 6:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: nk.net


"M. J. Powell" wrote in message
...

Quibble

Nissan Huts

/Quibble


Nissen Huts

Wait! Wait! I corrected it!


Who cares as long as the roofs didn't leak and the pot bellied stoves didn'l
smoke up the place.

Did you manage to get them red-hot up to the ceiling?

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

On 01 Jul 2003 14:41:33 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

That is of little comfort to those of us who didn't get the fighter cover we
needed.

Unescorted daylight strategic bombing wasn't my idea, believe it or
not.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 7/1/03 7:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Unescorted daylight strategic bombing wasn't my idea, believe it or
not.

Gavin Bailey

Mine either. At last we agree on something.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 05:21:09 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:

And I'm not sure that the 38 was all that
effective defending bombers against 109s/190s on their home ground.

all the best -- Dan Ford (email: info AT danford.net)

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

Dan, the P-38s helped a great deal. Bomber losses dropped by 50% when escorted
by nothing more than two very under-strength P-38 Groups. Both the 20th and 55th
FGs suffered from large numbers of aborts due to engine problems, on some
missions as many as 30% of the P-38 force had to return to base with engine
failures. Yet, this tiny force (usually less than 60 fighters) did a great deal
to cut bomber losses to sustainable levels. As more P-51B/C Mustangs arrived,
the P-38s were able to share the "over target" escort duty, reducing the
terrible mismatch in numbers. By early 1944, the situation had reversed and the
Luftwaffe was finding itself badly out-numbered. Nonetheless, November and
December of 1943 were dangerous times to be flying the P-38 from Britain.

Ultimately, the P-38J, which was specifically engineered for tropical climates,
was unsuitable for high altitude duty over Europe in the dead of winter. It
wasn't until the Spring of 1944 that the P-38L rectified these deficiencies,
and by then the 8th Air Force was committed to the P-51. However, both the
9th and 15th Air Forces used the P-38L with good success. Unfortunately, the
P-38's development was mismanaged by Lockheed, the WPB and the USAAF.
It could have been a far more effective fighter at least a year sooner.

My regards,

Widewing
Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 7/1/03 7:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time

How would you know? Did you fly B-17's on B-24's or A-20's? If not,
apply your own rules of censorship and stop talking about anything
other than your personal observations of the missions you flew on, and
don't talk about anything else.

Gavin Bailey

I request the same of you. Only talk about what you experienced. I guess we
won't be hearing much from you anymore. And I guess you are now the
sell-appointed censor of this NG telling guys what they can and can't talk
about. That will never happen.If you have a problem with that I invite you , no
urge you to add me to your killfile.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" wrote in
message ...

Your experience does not amount to the totality of air operations in
World War Two. There were millions of people like you out there,
doing their best in impossible circumstances at great risk.


You're right, of course, but Art will never understand that.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

I was there. I looked for you but didn't see you, where were you? Read a
thousand books. You still won' t have the feeling of what it was all
about..


If one cannot learn about the war by reading about it, then there's no point
in your writing about it.

On 01 Jul 2003 15:08:07 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

I request the same of you.

You have been, for some time.

Only talk about what you experienced. I guess we
won't be hearing much from you anymore.

Remind me of your contemporary expertise on 100-octane fuel supply to
Britain in 1940. Didn't stop you voicing an opinion, so restrain your
hypocrisy.

And I guess you are now the
sell-appointed censor of this NG telling guys what they can and can't talk
about.

You seem you enjoy that role far too much for me to deny it to you.

That will never happen.If you have a problem with that I invite you , no
urge you to add me to your killfile.

Be my guest. I have no intention of killfiling you, as respecting and
tolerating dissent is one of the things your fighting and risking your
life for has given me the luxury of trying out.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003

On 01 Jul 2003 15:17:22 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

f course not. Equally, you'll never know the feeling of going up
against Fw 190s in an Airacobra or desperately trying to evade a Wild
Sau nightfighter over Berlin or clambering out of a landing craft in
the teeth of enemy machine-gin

You are right. Tell me about it. II want to hear it form the horses mouth. No
offense of course..

How did you learn to use the Norden? Did you design, buld and test it
yourself or did somebody else do it for you? In which case, don't
bother telling me about bomb-aiming and Norden issues, I'd rather have
it from the horses' mouth.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003