Claus-Dieter Zink takes measures against Lowlands Cup team

Hi everyone,

Perhaps some of you already know the soaring simulator Condor. With around
1000 members Condor is becoming a really nice community. Every evening many
people fly against eachother in several different servers with challenging
tasks from 100 to sometimes 300km. These tasks are not only a lot of fun,
but they are also very educational since many pro's are helping and giving
tips to others.
On Thursday and Sunday evening there is a Lowlands Cup competition, which is
set up by several volunteers. Around 300 to 400 pilots are competing against
eachother in a friendly and educational way. Click the following link to
view the Lowlands Cup website: http://lowlands.sytes.net/

Let's get straight to the point now... Well known glider photographer
Claus-Dieter Zink has taken measures against the Lowlands Cup team because
the team had used a photograph originally taken by Mr. Zink for in their
banner on the Lowlands Cup website. The team did ask permission to use this
image, but never received a reply. Without even a warning or a request to
have the image removed, Mr. Zink immediately took legal action against the
Lowlands Cup team.
Well, I think this is the part where I should ask you to read the topic on
the Condor website at this link:
http://forum.condorsoaring.com/viewt... asc&highlight

On behalf of the whole Condor community I would like to ask you to please
read the topic at the Condor forum and give your support. Also, after I read
that topic, I'll think twice before I will buy a calendar of Mr. Zink
again....

Regards,
Peter Millenaar,
Condor community.

As a general statement without reference to the particulars of the specific
situation Peter Millenaar reports below about which I don't know enough to
comment, I'm always struck by the sense of entitlement that those who
appropriate the copyrighted work of others feel and the degree to which they
feel unfairly singled out by the consequences.

Raphael Warshaw
Claremont, CA
1LK

"Peter Millenaar" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

Perhaps some of you already know the soaring simulator Condor. With around

Raphael Warshaw wrote:

...I'm always struck by the sense of entitlement that those who
appropriate the copyrighted work of others feel and the degree
to which they feel unfairly singled out by the consequences.

Perhaps Herr Zink should learn not to leave important things lying about.


Jack

Jack wrote:

Perhaps Herr Zink should learn not to leave important things lying about.

I don't follow.

Ray Warshaw

wrote:

Jack wrote:

Perhaps Herr Zink should learn not to leave important things lying about.

I don't follow.

Ray,

If he wishes to guard his images so jealously, then he has much to learn
about how to post them on the web so that they cannot be useful to
anyone else.

Zink sounds like a great guy, alright. What is his point in harassing
people, in a case where he lost nothing and he stands to gain nothing? I
wonder if he has photo-releases from all the glider owners and pilots in
his published photos?

see: http://194.78.210.186:80/

Instead of working to increase his sales by cooperating, he has now cut
off numerous potential sales by his selfish and uncooperative attitude.


Jack

Seems to me that the copyright notice should have been sufficient. If
you borrow my car without my permission and return it undamaged and
with a full tank of fuel, it's still grand theft auto.

The images are the PROPERTY of the photographer, and, when protected by
copyright, cannot be used without his permission. Last year I needed
an image for a non-commercial poster. The late Neil Lawson supplied a
great one for a pittance, far less than what it cost him in time and
effort to provide. The terms were one-time use and it was reproduced
with the White Planes Picture Company copyright notice, thereby
crediting the artist and protecting his interests.

BTW, I don't know how it works elsewhere, but in the US, other than for
explicitly commercial purposes such as advertising, pictures taken in
the public commons don't require releases.

Ray Warshaw
1LK



Jack wrote:
wrote:

Jack wrote:

Perhaps Herr Zink should learn not to leave important things lying about.

I don't follow.

Ray,

If he wishes to guard his images so jealously, then he has much to learn
about how to post them on the web so that they cannot be useful to
anyone else.

Zink sounds like a great guy, alright. What is his point in harassing
people, in a case where he lost nothing and he stands to gain nothing? I
wonder if he has photo-releases from all the glider owners and pilots in
his published photos?

see: http://194.78.210.186:80/

Instead of working to increase his sales by cooperating, he has now cut
off numerous potential sales by his selfish and uncooperative attitude.


Jack

wrote:

Last year I needed an image for a non-commercial poster.
The late Neil Lawson supplied a great one for a pittance,
far less than what it cost him in time and effort to provide.

Thanks for using Neil Lawson as an example of how it should be done.

However the main beef with Zink seems to be that he went after the wrong
people, because they were conveniently available to the German legal
system. The man appears to be not only a poor businessman, but a bit of
a bully as well.

It will be of interest, in this dreary and too-long winter season, to
see whether or not he prevails. It beats another round of PW5- and
Schweizer-bashing.


Jack

I never met Mr. Lawson in person, but I had a number of long
trans-atlantic phone conversations with him. He hated the people who
stole his images. A common practice among the less reputable art
directors was to pay him for one-time use and then use the image in
multiple publications. He was better at picking his fights than Zink
seems to be, though.

His pictures are (were), BTW, one of only two reasons that this Yankee
maintains a subscription to "Sailplane and Gliding".

As it happens, I rather like the PW-5...............

Ray Warshaw
1LK

Some clarification.

Yes, we are wrong because we used a picture without checking the
source/copyright. We just found it with Google and it was not coming
from the site of CDZ. Up till now we did not even found the picture
back on his website.

But the moment we found out that it was possibly a picture of CDZ we
tried to contact him and ask for permission and support. No reply.
A mail discussion started with somebody who claimed to talk in the name
of CDZ (even wrote: CDZ is standing right next to me at the moment) who
wrote (after some unpleasant mails), it is ok. During this conversation
we again tried to contact CDZ (email and phone) but no response.
Because the Lowlandscup is for fun and promotion of gliding and
strictly non profit we had no reason to believe that it would hurt CDZ,
or his business and that of course he would not have any objection in
using the picture. Boy, we were wrong!
We received a letter from his lawyer demanding to pay an amount of 1400
Euros for copyright infringement. Again we tried to reach Mr. Zink
(email, phone and 3 different faxnumbers) trying to settle this in a
mature way. The only response we received from him, via the lawyer, was
that we committed a crime and he doesn't want to deal with thieves.

The only option available to us was seek assistance in the
glidingcommunity. We are spending a lot of time making the Lowlandscup
work, and we get no money for it at all. We do not have the funds to
pay for the claim of CDZ.

The picture we used is already removed and replaced by a picture
offered by the German C-kader (German Juniors team).

I'm flying for more than 25 years, have participated in everything from
Juniors up till Worldchampionships. It was always a pleasure to meet
new people from all over the world, and we have made many new friends.
All these people shared the joy of soaring.
The words from the website of CDZ: 'Mit Freundlichem Fliegergruss'
(with friendly soaring greetings) seems to me not very well chosen. We
tried to correct our mistake, mr Zink only contacted his lawyer and
never contacted us.

Sorry Mr. Zink, this is not how we handle with issues in the
glidercommunity!
And I also rather not be called a thief anymore...

Ronald Termaat
XT

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:25:18 UTC, wrote:

: Seems to me that the copyright notice should have been sufficient. If
: you borrow my car without my permission and return it undamaged and
: with a full tank of fuel, it's still grand theft auto.

In the Uk it would be Taking Without the Owners Consent, but not
theft, since theft needs the intention to permanently deprive someone
of something.

Ian


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