Military aviation mishaps

from Navy Times of February 23, 2004 p.32
"Cockpit errors, op tempo cited as air-mishaps cause"

Aviation mishaps, 1980-2003.
the number of Class A aircraft mishaps - those involving loss of life
or more than $1 million in damage - dropped from 1980 to 2001 but
spiked over the past two years of the war on terrorism. The services
mishap rates since 1980:

Service Total Rate*
Navy 821 2.33
Air Force 1,010 1.46
Army 603 1.80
Marine Corps 369 4.07
DOD 2,803 2.41

*Class A mishaps per 100,000 flight hours

Mike

On 2/20/04 2:49 PM, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

from Navy Times of February 23, 2004 p.32
"Cockpit errors, op tempo cited as air-mishaps cause"

Aviation mishaps, 1980-2003.
the number of Class A aircraft mishaps - those involving loss of life
or more than $1 million in damage - dropped from 1980 to 2001 but
spiked over the past two years of the war on terrorism. The services
mishap rates since 1980:

Service Total Rate*
Navy 821 2.33
Air Force 1,010 1.46
Army 603 1.80
Marine Corps 369 4.07
DOD 2,803 2.41

*Class A mishaps per 100,000 flight hours

Mike

I'm not sure if I agree about the case for OPTEMPO.

A few years ago, the Navy's Safety Center put out a brief on the subject
that broke out mishaps by their major causal factors.

They concluded that through NATOPS, superior training, and SOP's the Navy
had driven its mishap rate down significantly and that the least experienced
pilots were in the groups with the highest mishap rates.

They cited lack of flight time as one reason why these pilots were morting
themselves and banging up more airplanes. To me, higher OPTEMPO means
higher flight time. You can blame high OPTEMPO for low retention, but not
necessarily for more mishaps.

Culturally, the brief also cited a greater propensity for Navy and Marine
Corps pilots to willfully violate SOP or FAR's than their Army or Air Force
counterparts. (Although anecdotally, I can come up with an example or two
of why I doubt that's true.)

--Woody

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ...
SNIP
Culturally, the brief also cited a greater propensity for Navy and Marine
Corps pilots to willfully violate SOP or FAR's than their Army or Air Force
counterparts. (Although anecdotally, I can come up with an example or two
of why I doubt that's true.)
--Woody

SNIP -

So can I. Perhaps (undoubtedy) USAF and even Army aircrews are more cunning.
One has to be caught to be charged with a violation.
Walt BJ

On 2/21/04 11:06 PM, in article
, "WaltBJ"
wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Culturally, the brief also cited a greater propensity for Navy and Marine
Corps pilots to willfully violate SOP or FAR's than their Army or Air Force
counterparts. (Although anecdotally, I can come up with an example or two
of why I doubt that's true.)
--Woody

SNIP -

So can I. Perhaps (undoubtedy) USAF and even Army aircrews are more cunning.
One has to be caught to be charged with a violation.
Walt BJ

I guess I'm not the only one who sees it that way.

I know of an F-16 pilot who morted himself a few years back while doing a
loop over a relative's farm. During an impromptu airshow, he didn't leave
enough vertical airspace underneath his jet to complete the back-side of a
loop and pancaked in just short of "airshow center."

The SIR (or whatever the USAF guys call) acknowledged that he had done quite
a bit of flat-hatting (even in two-seat aircraft) during his (nearly 17
year) career but stated that his commanders never knew it. Apparently,
commanders don't have all the tools to know what their pilots are doing
because their JO's are doing a great job of covering up.

Curiously enough, the SIR also discussed extensively his poor technique over
the top of the loop that ultimately lead to his demise.

Anecdotal evidence, yes, but I think their corporate cover up makes sense
culturally because of the USAF's very tight regulation and zero tolerance
for mistakes.

Bottom line for me: As long as imperfect humans are designing, building,
fixing, and flying airplanes, we'll be crashing them. The best you can do
is minimize the mishap rates, but at some point, you must accept SOME low
number.

Anecdotal evidence, yes, but I think their corporate cover up makes sense
culturally because of the USAF's very tight regulation and zero tolerance
for mistakes.

I agree, the Air Force has always been better at PR then the other services.

As long as we are on the subject, there was an incident a few years back
when a younger F-14 pilot was on a cross country flight and stopped to
re-fuel at his home town airport, just so his family could see him. The
F-14 crashed on either takeoff or departure while leaving the hometown
airport. Not sure how he justified landing at a non-military airfield for
re-fueling unless there weren't any military airfields around - I think that
was one of the focal points of the accident investigation. Not sure if he
was hot-dogging it when departing or if something just went wrong. Perhaps
someone else has more accurate details.

JD

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:41:31 GMT, Joe Delphi wrote:

I agree, the Air Force has always been better at PR then the other services.

You misspelled Marines...

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

Joe Delphi wrote:

Not sure how he justified landing at a non-military airfield for re-fueling
unless there weren't any military airfields around

They carry credit cards for this.

--
Jim

carry on




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Joe Delphi wrote:


Anecdotal evidence, yes, but I think their corporate cover up makes sense
culturally because of the USAF's very tight regulation and zero tolerance
for mistakes.

I agree, the Air Force has always been better at PR then the other services.

As long as we are on the subject, there was an incident a few years back
when a younger F-14 pilot was on a cross country flight and stopped to
re-fuel at his home town airport, just so his family could see him. The
F-14 crashed on either takeoff or departure while leaving the hometown
airport. Not sure how he justified landing at a non-military airfield for
re-fueling unless there weren't any military airfields around - I think that
was one of the focal points of the accident investigation. Not sure if he
was hot-dogging it when departing or if something just went wrong. Perhaps
someone else has more accurate details.

JD

It happens all the time. I live in Savannah GA, and a local airport operation
(FBO) has a govt. fuel contract, even though MCAS Beaufort is about 30 miles
away as the Hornet flies, Hunter Army AF is about 6 miles away, and there is a
large ANG C-130 base on the other side of the field.

Back before 9/11, when elderly airport kids were allowed on the ramp to
rubberneck, I spent a lot of Friday afternoons there.

I saw all manner of military aluminum, from Harriers and Hornets to Sherpas,
T-34's, and various mil versions of biz jets.

The pilots got better and faster service, a nicer pilots' lounge and less
hassle. People coming to meetings and conferences at Hunter would even land and
leave their planes at the Savannah airport and drive to the Army base. ( Note:
this was not a runway preference decision. Hunter used to be a B-47 base and is
a shuttle alternate landing site.)

I think the taxpayer dollars came out about the same.

PS - One T-34C arrived during a Bonanza fly-in event. I told the guys they had
the ugliest Bonanza there, but could win any races!

Bob McKellar

Understand that, but isn't that sort of for emergency or unplanned
situations like having to divert because of mechanical problem or possibly
low fuel because of stronger than expected headwinds or something like that.
I always thought that when filing the DD-175 plan you should plan your route
for re-fueling at military bases unless it just isn't possible for some
reason.

JD

"Jim Herring" wrote in message
...
Joe Delphi wrote:

Not sure how he justified landing at a non-military airfield for
re-fueling
unless there weren't any military airfields around

They carry credit cards for this.

Bob- The pilots got better and faster service, a nicer pilots' lounge and
less
hassle. BRBR

You bet, anybody remember the 'Tulsa Turnaround'?

Was met at the jet by scantily clad babes with a cold drink...pre tailhook
fiasco.

What airpatch was that?
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer