Accident in Namibia, SH Ventus 2cxm

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 10:41:22 AM UTC-5, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 07:12:13 -0800 (PST), Tango Whisky
wrote:
I think that the ASH25 happened in 1985 or 1986.
Martin Heide told me about it a week or two later.

... actually it was the ASW-22 prototype.

Right, one of two accidents I know of where hydrostatic pressure
blew the wing skins off a -22 (the other a ground-loop).

Led to development of the kludgy isolated tanks, which limit
hydraulic pressure *IFF* there's a bit of air in the tanks.
Don't overfill ;-)

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

Just going back to the actual topic of this thread, there has been a trace received from the logger of the Ventus in question.
Looks like he exited the thermal at a bit over 4500 meters, and has gently pulled into a turn, stalled, and gone straight down from there. No sign of a recovery.
I will not speculate as to what has happened as he was a friend of mine.

One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?
Accidental or unreliable deployment issues aside, a drag chute could probably be used to recover from a spin or spiral dive without exceeding Vne.

For example the Nimbus 2 has a terminal velocity in a vertical dive of 200 to 220 km/h (108 to 119 knots) with the tail chute deployed, air brakes and landing gear extended. So assuming one popped the chute within a couple of seconds (giving extra time to extend air brakes and lower the landing gear) the glider would be able to exit the spin/spiral vertically and then gently pull out of the dive without breaking anything in the process.

Is this a crazy idea or feasible?

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?

You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right moment.

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 10:32:26 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?

You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right moment.

You mean like the other gliders that have tail chutes?
UH

At 15:32 04 February 2016, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a
better
option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?

You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right
moment.


Attach the rear seat pilot to the boom with a length of cable. He can then
exit and deploy his chute thereby stabilising the spin and when the
aircraft is fully recovered disconnect and float down to earth. Job done!

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 6:32:26 PM UTC+3, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?

You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right moment.

Like the blue knob low on the right hand cockpit wall in my glider here, you mean?

http://hoult.org/bruce/gliding/sasha/sasha-Images/3.jpg.

First stop deploys the chute. Zig right and all the way forward to jettison it.

Not the same glider, but looks like the same model:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7261/...8173ceca_b.jpg

How does that work? Do you push the knob forward to the detent to
deploy the chute and then outboard and forward again to jettison? What
type of glider is that?

On 2/4/2016 9:02 AM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 6:32:26 PM UTC+3, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?
You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right moment.
Like the blue knob low on the right hand cockpit wall in my glider here, you mean?

http://hoult.org/bruce/gliding/sasha/sasha-Images/3.jpg.

First stop deploys the chute. Zig right and all the way forward to jettison it.

Not the same glider, but looks like the same model:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7261/...8173ceca_b.jpg

--
Dan, 5J

Sounds like a good idea.

As an aside, I have many chute only landings in an Elfe S-3 and a Libelle 301. Besides being great pattern & speed control practice (I slip around the pattern from downwind through final until I'm at about 50ft before deploying the chute) its a hell of a lot of fun!

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?
Accidental or unreliable deployment issues aside, a drag chute could probably be used to recover from a spin or spiral dive without exceeding Vne.

For example the Nimbus 2 has a terminal velocity in a vertical dive of 200 to 220 km/h (108 to 119 knots) with the tail chute deployed, air brakes and landing gear extended. So assuming one popped the chute within a couple of seconds (giving extra time to extend air brakes and lower the landing gear) the glider would be able to exit the spin/spiral vertically and then gently pull out of the dive without breaking anything in the process.

Is this a crazy idea or feasible?

At 16:12 04 February 2016, Dan Marotta wrote:
How does that work? Do you push the knob forward to the detent to
deploy the chute and then outboard and forward again to jettison?
What
type of glider is that?

Looks like a Janus. If you are clumsy it is very easy to past the first
detent and all the way forward. The parachute then falls off in it's
container and is very difficult to find :-)