Composite & Carbon Fiber

Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a template for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing approved for a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a template
for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

Well, yeah, you could use it as a plug but who would want to?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing approved for
a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

Have at it. No approval necessary except when you apply for your homebuilt
c of a. It's not like you're getting it certified. Make sure you use a
good set of 150 (or 172) l. g. including nosewheel strut because that stuff
is damn strong.

Well I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but if you plan on
using the base airframe of a certified plane already , instead of building
your framework from skratch, which is how I read your post.... You will need
to get approval from the FAA . As a general rule on a certified aircraft
only certified parts may be used. Now if you build the entire plane from the
ground up as an experimental like the man said "HAVE A BALL!"
" jls" wrote in message
. ..

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber
molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was
wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a template
for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

Well, yeah, you could use it as a plug but who would want to?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing approved
for
a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

Have at it. No approval necessary except when you apply for your
homebuilt
c of a. It's not like you're getting it certified. Make sure you use a
good set of 150 (or 172) l. g. including nosewheel strut because that
stuff
is damn strong.

I don't normally top post, but there is such a mess, here....

Com'on guys! Think his through. Big problems.

# 1 problem. If you make a copy of a 150, don't you think Cessna is going
to have something to say to you, via a lawyer? I do. The 150 is their
design. You can't just copy it!

#2 problem. I quote: "if you plan on using the base airframe of a certified
plane already , instead of building your framework from skratch, which is
how I read your post.... "

What? This isn't a 52 Ford. You don't use the frame, and put a shell on
it. You can't take away the frame, and still use it. The body is the
frame. If you take it away, you ARE starting from "skratch".

Why would you want to copy a 150? Boxy, ugly, no provisions for mounting to
stuff, probably, no angels and tapers from popping it out of the mold. The
problems are too numerous to mention them all.
--
Jim in NC


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Well I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but if you plan on
using the base airframe of a certified plane already , instead of building
your framework from skratch, which is how I read your post.... You will
need
to get approval from the FAA . As a general rule on a certified aircraft
only certified parts may be used. Now if you build the entire plane from
the
ground up as an experimental like the man said "HAVE A BALL!"
" jls" wrote in message
. ..

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber
molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was
wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a
template
for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

Well, yeah, you could use it as a plug but who would want to?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info
would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing approved
for
a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

Have at it. No approval necessary except when you apply for your
homebuilt
c of a. It's not like you're getting it certified. Make sure you use
a
good set of 150 (or 172) l. g. including nosewheel strut because that
stuff
is damn strong.






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"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I don't normally top post, but there is such a mess, here....

Com'on guys! Think his through. Big problems.

# 1 problem. If you make a copy of a 150, don't you think Cessna is going
to have something to say to you, via a lawyer? I do. The 150 is their
design. You can't just copy it!

I did not say copy it I said use the fuselage as a template of course it
would be changed a bit from the original design for 1 it would be composit
not aluminum and the models I listed were an example. I see people are
making piper supercub's dose piper have a problem with it?


#2 problem. I quote: "if you plan on using the base airframe of a
certified
plane already , instead of building your framework from skratch, which is
how I read your post....

What? This isn't a 52 Ford. You don't use the frame, and put a shell on
it. You can't take away the frame, and still use it. The body is the
frame. If you take it away, you ARE starting from "skratch".

Why would you want to copy a 150? Boxy, ugly, no provisions for mounting
to
stuff, probably, no angels and tapers from popping it out of the mold.
The
problems are too numerous to mention them all.

I just used them airplane model #'s for an example this is all hypothetical
at the moment just an idea that my friend brought up to me thought I'd see
what you all thought. All I can say is this guy makes some nice custom car
body's/tubs and ahs a nice shop and offering to do it for cost of materials.

--
Jim in NC


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Well I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but if you plan on
using the base airframe of a certified plane already , instead of
building
your framework from skratch, which is how I read your post.... You will
need
to get approval from the FAA . As a general rule on a certified aircraft
only certified parts may be used. Now if you build the entire plane from
the
ground up as an experimental like the man said "HAVE A BALL!"
" jls" wrote in message
. ..

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber
molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was
wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a
template
for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

Well, yeah, you could use it as a plug but who would want to?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info
would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing
approved
for
a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

Have at it. No approval necessary except when you apply for your
homebuilt
c of a. It's not like you're getting it certified. Make sure you
use
a
good set of 150 (or 172) l. g. including nosewheel strut because that
stuff
is damn strong.






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004

" jls" wrote in message
. ..

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber
molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was
wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a template
for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

Well, yeah, you could use it as a plug but who would want to?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing approved
for
a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

Have at it. No approval necessary except when you apply for your
homebuilt
c of a.

What would paperwork would be required for homebuilt c of a, drawings?
Estimated or projected proformance data?


It's not like you're getting it certified. Make sure you use a
good set of 150 (or 172) l. g. including nosewheel strut because that
stuff
is damn strong.

"NW_PILOT" wrote

I did not say copy it I said use the fuselage as a template

Still their intellectual property.

of course it
would be changed a bit from the original design for 1 it would be composit
not aluminum and the models I listed were an example. I see people are
making piper supercub's dose piper have a problem with it?


Are they still making Piper Cubs, and trying to sell them?


#2 problem. I quote: "if you plan on using the base airframe of a
certified
plane already , instead of building your framework from skratch, which
is
how I read your post....

What? This isn't a 52 Ford. You don't use the frame, and put a shell
on
it. You can't take away the frame, and still use it. The body is the
frame. If you take it away, you ARE starting from "skratch".

Why would you want to copy a 150? Boxy, ugly, no provisions for
mounting
to
stuff, probably, no angels and tapers from popping it out of the mold.
The
problems are too numerous to mention them all.

I just used them airplane model #'s for an example this is all
hypothetical
at the moment just an idea that my friend brought up to me thought I'd see
what you all thought. All I can say is this guy makes some nice custom car
body's/tubs and ahs a nice shop and offering to do it for cost of
materials.

There would be so much re-engineering that would have to be done, it would
not be the same airplane, except the shape. By the time you did all that,
why not come up with your own shape that takes advantage of the curves that
aluminum can not do? The loads that an airplane has to take would make a
simple copy, like car body tubs unsafe to fly. I'll bet that it would weigh
more in fiberglass if you did strenghten it enough.
--
Jim in NC



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Jim,
I believe I read the post wrong I was under the impression that he
intended to use an N# airplane basic airframe and just redo all the skins
and panels in carbonfiber. You may re skin a plane, remake all the metal
panels you want by processes to the manual of that plane and it will still
be the same N#'d airplane. But yes changing the airframe or starting all
over would make it experimental and Cessna might just "have a problem" with
a copy of their design. To get around that slight changes can be made and
you should be ok as far as a copyright. Seems he wants to make a carbon spin
off of the Cessna, and I agree with you I think it would outweigh the
original. i really would see no point in doing it. probably alot better
designs out there for that type aircraft.
"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

" jls" wrote in message
. ..

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, everyone a friend of mine own's Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber
molding
business (He makes hoods, doors, fenders & tubs for cars). I was
wondering
if anyone has ever used a Cessna 150, 172 or 182 fuselage as a
template
for
the making of a Carbon Fiber fuselage?

Well, yeah, you could use it as a plug but who would want to?

I have few questions! Since it will not be a kit what kind of info
would
have to be provided to the FAA to be able to get such a thing approved
for
a
homebuilt experimental aircraft project?


Thanks In Advance

Have at it. No approval necessary except when you apply for your
homebuilt
c of a.

What would paperwork would be required for homebuilt c of a, drawings?
Estimated or projected proformance data?


It's not like you're getting it certified. Make sure you use a
good set of 150 (or 172) l. g. including nosewheel strut because that
stuff
is damn strong.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:25:58 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:

"NW_PILOT" wrote

I did not say copy it I said use the fuselage as a template

Still their intellectual property.

of course it
would be changed a bit from the original design for 1 it would be composit
not aluminum and the models I listed were an example. I see people are
making piper supercub's dose piper have a problem with it?

Are they still making Piper Cubs, and trying to sell them?

Piper restarted Super Cub production in the late '80s...and, AFAIK, never
interfered with the Wag-Aero line other than to demand they quit using the
"Cuby" name. I doubt Boeing will sue Titan aircraft over their Mustang
replica.

I don't think Cessna will care if someone uses a Cessna fuselage as a mold
to built a one-of homebuilt. I think they'll *definitely* care if someone
enters production, claiming the plane is a replica 150....though Fisher
makes just such a claim for one of their planes. But the Fisher product
obviously isn't really look that much like a Cessna.

Keep in mind that a fiberglass mold of a Cessna fuselage would not, in
itself, be an airworthy structure. Any more than the Cessna would be
airworthy if the fuselage structure consisted of nothing more than the
external skin. That fiberglass shell will need the appropriate internal
structure. Bulkheads, etc., plus the hard points for wing, engine, tail,
and gear attachment.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message news
Keep in mind that a fiberglass mold of a Cessna fuselage would not, in
itself, be an airworthy structure.

Further, the question is, why would you want one anyhow. If you're going to all
the effort to make a composite shell, why would you pattern it after a 40+ year old
profile designed to be cheaply buildable in aluminum?