engine pre-oiler

Dan: Thanks for the hint but their pricing is $1,000 and the weight is
above 7#. I'm sure that I can beat both the price and the weight. I was
just curious if anyone had ever triede to use a diesel fuel pump to pump
engine oil.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 11:58 am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"Maxwell" wrote in message

...

- Have you considered a tiny gear pump you could spin with a hand crank
or
cordless drill during preflight?

Now THAT'S CLEVER. Does any such thing exist?

Bill Daniels

There are proper aircraft preoilers out there. They just cost
money. Go to http://www.oilamatic.com/engine-tlc.htm

Dan

Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps requiring
priming?
Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit of
space.
"Maxwell" wrote in message
...

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
I've got to admit that idea has never been put forth, but I'm playing
with a helicopter and increasing weight is looked at very closely. My
accumulator that I built weighs 2.9# but the electric fuel pumps that I
have been reviewing weigh less than 2#. I think that the smog pump is
much heavier.
BTW I fly in the desert and corrosion is pretty much a non-issue. I had
a raw 4130 helicopter frame setting outside for about 10yrs and you could
wipe off the rust with a paper towel.
I would really like to have a system mounted on the helicopter that would
pre-oil just before start up. I some time have periods on the airshow
circuit where the engine does not get started for several weeks and I
would like to pre-oil prior to starting and be able to do that from the
cockpit or possibly from a manual pump providing that I can keep the
weight down.

Just some random thoughts...

- Three pounds for an accumulator seems like a good reliable and
reasonable weight solution to me, if you just don't forget to charge it
before each engine shut down.

- I don't think a fuel pump will reliably pump cold aviation motor oil.
Have you experimented with one?

- Have you considered a tiny gear pump you could spin with a hand crank or
cordless drill during preflight?

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
I've got to admit that idea has never been put forth, but I'm playing with
a helicopter and increasing weight is looked at very closely. My
accumulator that I built weighs 2.9# but the electric fuel pumps that I
have been reviewing weigh less than 2#.

Electric oil pump
http://www.enginegearonline.com/3gpmgepumowi.html

These folks have electric pumps,and switches that turn it off when the
engine oil pump catches up. Also will provide for oil flow if your engine
oil pump dies in flight.
http://www.infinityaerospace.com/

More can be found search with "engine pre-oiler pump."
--
Jim in NC

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
I've got to admit that idea has never been put forth, but I'm playing with
a helicopter and increasing weight is looked at very closely. My
accumulator that I built weighs 2.9# but the electric fuel pumps that I
have been reviewing weigh less than 2#. I think that the smog pump is
much heavier.
BTW I fly in the desert and corrosion is pretty much a non-issue. I had a
raw 4130 helicopter frame setting outside for about 10yrs and you could
wipe off the rust with a paper towel.

I know it was kind of an, ahhh, unusual, idea, but...

Your 4130 was sitting outside the crankase where it is dry (due to you being
in the desert). However, all the stuff that wears out on your engine is
inside the crancase where the atmosphere is pretty much blow by - CO2, CO,
H2O, unburned HC with some Sulfer and NO/NO2 thrown in for the fun of it.
Nasty stuff even if it it dry outside.

You do have the advantage that, whth a helicopter, you are running the snot
out of the thing purd near all the time, so it is more likely to get good
and hot to boil the water out of the oil.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Morgans: Thanks for the link to enginegearonline. I hadn't hit them yet
and they look like they may have the answer. The other on Infiinity is also
on my favorite list.
Thanks again
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
I've got to admit that idea has never been put forth, but I'm playing
with a helicopter and increasing weight is looked at very closely. My
accumulator that I built weighs 2.9# but the electric fuel pumps that I
have been reviewing weigh less than 2#.

Electric oil pump
http://www.enginegearonline.com/3gpmgepumowi.html

These folks have electric pumps,and switches that turn it off when the
engine oil pump catches up. Also will provide for oil flow if your engine
oil pump dies in flight.
http://www.infinityaerospace.com/

More can be found search with "engine pre-oiler pump."
--
Jim in NC

Geoff: It is very rare when I start the helo up that I don't get good hot
oil before shut down. However it don't get run every week and in fact some
times a month goes by without a start up so the pre-oiler is attracting my
attention.
"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
...
"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
I've got to admit that idea has never been put forth, but I'm playing
with a helicopter and increasing weight is looked at very closely. My
accumulator that I built weighs 2.9# but the electric fuel pumps that I
have been reviewing weigh less than 2#. I think that the smog pump is
much heavier.
BTW I fly in the desert and corrosion is pretty much a non-issue. I had
a raw 4130 helicopter frame setting outside for about 10yrs and you could
wipe off the rust with a paper towel.

I know it was kind of an, ahhh, unusual, idea, but...

Your 4130 was sitting outside the crankase where it is dry (due to you
being in the desert). However, all the stuff that wears out on your engine
is inside the crancase where the atmosphere is pretty much blow by - CO2,
CO, H2O, unburned HC with some Sulfer and NO/NO2 thrown in for the fun of
it. Nasty stuff even if it it dry outside.

You do have the advantage that, whth a helicopter, you are running the
snot out of the thing purd near all the time, so it is more likely to get
good and hot to boil the water out of the oil.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps
requiring priming?

How about something like this, or perhaps something like it in aluminum.
http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspe...l_00RGPump.htm
Just mount it below the sump so it's always primed. Just include a good
check valve so you couldn't loose oil presure back through it. This
particular size would probably be best driven by a cordless drill, but a
higher displacement unit might be turned with a had crank.

Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit
of space.

Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited to
about a quart of prime.

On Dec 30, 2:04 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:

Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit
of space.

Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited to
about a quart of prime.

A quart of prime would be six or eight times as much as is needed
to preoil the engine. My little hand-pump on my A-65 does it with ten .
75 cubic-inch strokes, for 7.5 cu. in. total. A larger engine might
take 10 or 12 cubic inches. An engine tighter than mine (61 years old
now) would take much less.
A quart has just under 58 cubic inches.

Dan

Maxwell wrote:
"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .

Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps
requiring priming?


How about something like this, or perhaps something like it in aluminum.
http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspe...l_00RGPump.htm
Just mount it below the sump so it's always primed. Just include a good
check valve so you couldn't loose oil presure back through it. This
particular size would probably be best driven by a cordless drill, but a
higher displacement unit might be turned with a had crank.


Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit
of space.


Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited to
about a quart of prime.





Don't you think thi sis getting a little over the top now?

It's an O-320.

Not an R9800.

wrote

A quart of prime would be six or eight times as much as is needed
to preoil the engine. My little hand-pump on my A-65 does it with ten .
75 cubic-inch strokes, for 7.5 cu. in. total. A larger engine might
take 10 or 12 cubic inches.

Someone on the RV forum mentioned making an accumulator out of a
air-conditioning freon can. That, plus a couple valves and plumbing would
be pretty darn light.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the pre oiler will not do anything to
lubricate the camshaft, one of the parts that takes the most wear on dry
start-up.

If this is a non certified application, you could split the cases and add a
spray bar to help the cam.
--
Jim in NC