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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 11th 20, 01:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 88
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20


In my opinion, it should be required for the towpilot to be able to keep his hand on the release for the first 500ft. In Pawnees, this can be done, with wrist also lying on the throttle to ensure it stays full forward.


This is assuming that all Pawnees have a handle NOT down on the floor but (as I insisted at one time) up where the pilot can grab it while in the upright and seated position. I know that many have been modified, I've been contacted by many tow pilots who told me it took some persuading but finally their club/commercial operation saw the light. I will also tell you that kiting incidents are not all slowly evolving types where the glider pilot has simply inserted their head up their ass for a few moments. Some are sudden and quite violent. In my last kiting experience even if I had my hand on the handle (which was down on the floor and difficult to reach) I would have been nose down more than 60 degrees and pointed at the ground before I could have reacted. At a low enough altitude this will be fatal the vast majority of the time.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

  #2  
Old May 11th 20, 02:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ian Lane
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20


Terribly sad when this sort of accident happens.

As one who has experienced an upset in a Pawnee, albeit at about 1500', I
can confirm how frighteningly quickly it happens. On that occasion I was
able to dump the glider (an ASH25) and recover safely. The glider pilot
admitted afterwards that he had been re-tuning his radio whilst on tow, and
had lost sight of me!!!

The release mechanism on our Pawnee, and on others I've flown in the UK,
is a cable and pulley system whereby the said cable runs vertically from
the the cockpit roof to just above the throttle lever and is really easy to
grab in an emergency - no fumbling for a knob or lever.

A study of towplane upsets was done quite a few years ago , following a
series of accidents in the UK. Certain factors were found to increase the
risks:

High wing glider

Towing on the belly hook

Inexperienced glider pilot, and particularly those that usually flew from a
winch-only site

Schweizer hook on towplane

Turbulent conditions

...and often a combination of most, or all, of these - a case of the holes
in the Swiss cheese lining up.













At 12:27 11 May 2020, wrote:

In my opinion, it should be required for the towpilot to be able to

keep
=
his hand on the release for the first 500ft. In Pawnees, this can be

done,
=
with wrist also lying on the throttle to ensure it stays full forward.

This is assuming that all Pawnees have a handle NOT down on the floor but
(=
as I insisted at one time) up where the pilot can grab it while in the
upri=
ght and seated position. I know that many have been modified, I've been
co=
ntacted by many tow pilots who told me it took some persuading but

finally
=
their club/commercial operation saw the light. I will also tell you that
k=
iting incidents are not all slowly evolving types where the glider pilot
ha=
s simply inserted their head up their ass for a few moments. Some are
sudde=
n and quite violent. In my last kiting experience even if I had my hand
on=
the handle (which was down on the floor and difficult to reach) I would
ha=
ve been nose down more than 60 degrees and pointed at the ground before I
c=
ould have reacted. At a low enough altitude this will be fatal the vast
ma=
jority of the time. =20

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot



  #3  
Old May 11th 20, 02:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 8:27:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
In my opinion, it should be required for the towpilot to be able to keep his hand on the release for the first 500ft. In Pawnees, this can be done, with wrist also lying on the throttle to ensure it stays full forward.


This is assuming that all Pawnees have a handle NOT down on the floor but (as I insisted at one time) up where the pilot can grab it while in the upright and seated position. I know that many have been modified, I've been contacted by many tow pilots who told me it took some persuading but finally their club/commercial operation saw the light. I will also tell you that kiting incidents are not all slowly evolving types where the glider pilot has simply inserted their head up their ass for a few moments. Some are sudden and quite violent. In my last kiting experience even if I had my hand on the handle (which was down on the floor and difficult to reach) I would have been nose down more than 60 degrees and pointed at the ground before I could have reacted. At a low enough altitude this will be fatal the vast majority of the time.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot


The release on the floor is a huge contributing factor in many aspects of not being able to release during a kiting emergency. I will further state that the handle on the floor may be a bigger problem than the Schweizer release itself. The design of the newer pacific release negates the possibility of the connect ring going forward which may impede release. I have configured both of my Pawnee's so that the release handle is within easy accessibility and it has a long arm that would contribute to less load to engage the release.
  #4  
Old May 10th 20, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick Kennedy[_3_]
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Posts: 269
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

Watching that video of the wreck is shocking.
Its crazy how quickly aero towing can go sideways.
Thoughts and prayers to all involved.
Nick T
Ex tow pilot.

  #5  
Old May 11th 20, 01:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Hartley Falbaum[_2_]
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Posts: 80
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 10:57:01 AM UTC-4, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL


I do not know the specifics of this accident. But it is well known that the Schweitzer hook is vulnerable. The release mounting on the floor is hard or impossible to reach is a sever kiting. This has been hashed about in r.a.s. for years. I would be petrified to fly behind a "automatic" release.

Hartley Falbaum
Loganville, GA.
  #6  
Old May 11th 20, 06:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ireallyknowwhathappened
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

No details on this tragedy, yet we have those who assume they know....

An anonymous friend of an anonymous witness who said he might be wrong in what he saw

More than one blaming it on the towplane's release mechanism

The towpilot should have had his hand on the release

....and the best, a 3-in-1 judge, jury and witness... Glider pilot's fault and needs to go straight to jail
  #7  
Old May 11th 20, 01:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Karl Striedieck[_2_]
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

There are a few things that will make the Schweizer release a safer mechanism.

1 Inverting the release will eliminate all friction in the actuation.

2 Tow plane's release lever should be instantly accessible and have a high leverage configuration.

3 A careful dressing of the movable part of the release so that it is slightly curved where the capture slides off. This eliminates the increased force that the sliding capture generates as it starts sliding aft.

4 Tow pilots should include in their daily checklist a what if regarding rapidly getting rid of a kiting glider: where's the handle and which way does it go.

  #8  
Old May 11th 20, 07:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 5:59:13 AM UTC-7, Karl Striedieck wrote:
There are a few things that will make the Schweizer release a safer mechanism.

1 Inverting the release will eliminate all friction in the actuation.

2 Tow plane's release lever should be instantly accessible and have a high leverage configuration.

3 A careful dressing of the movable part of the release so that it is slightly curved where the capture slides off. This eliminates the increased force that the sliding capture generates as it starts sliding aft.

4 Tow pilots should include in their daily checklist a what if regarding rapidly getting rid of a kiting glider: where's the handle and which way does it go.


In Helicopters, the longline has two release mechanisms. An electronic one on the cyclic (stick) which can be push with thumb, and a manual one on the stick (brake type of handle). You are already holding the stick and the load is dumped fast, just a thought
  #9  
Old May 11th 20, 08:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sci Fi
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

If you have ever tried to move your arms when undergoing a high G
manoeuvre, you will realise the difficulty of grabbing hold of anything.

As the rope angle will not change much, having the release mechanism auto
release is also not so probable. Maybe some electronic Angle of Attack
device is needed that would detect any upset, and chop the rope instantly.
  #10  
Old May 11th 20, 09:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 2:00:06 PM UTC-6, Sci Fi wrote:
If you have ever tried to move your arms when undergoing a high G
manoeuvre, you will realise the difficulty of grabbing hold of anything.

As the rope angle will not change much, having the release mechanism auto
release is also not so probable. Maybe some electronic Angle of Attack
device is needed that would detect any upset, and chop the rope instantly.


Not a bad idea, but I'd link it to the artificial horizon instead of the AOA. But I'm not an aeronautical engineer, so what do I know?
 




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