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Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 13th 18, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 422
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 11:13:21 AM UTC-4, Eric Foertsch wrote:
Thanks Kinsell for this and prior comment.

I guess I didn't notice (or forgot) that SeeYou produces a .cai file also..

I am assuming thoug that logs from the GPS-NAV would need to be submitted in .cai format. When I look at the flight in both igc and cai format in SeeYou I get a 'Flight integrity: Unknown?'. But when I check the cai file back in Aero Explored it says it is valid.

Thanks again.


IIRC, an IGC file from a Cambridge GPS-NAV is unsecure. You have to use the CAI file. Between that, the lower level of security provided by the original CAI loggers, the date issue, and the reliability problems, I remain to this day a little annoyed at the strong-arm tactics employed when GPS was "introduced" to SSA competition and we were all forced to buy CAI devices.

I love the way everyone thinks you should spend some more of your money to buy another device that does essentially the same thing as your GPS-NAV does. I stopped using mine two years ago not because scorers were refusing to accept CAI files (they were not) but because I bought a PowerFLARM (Portable, which works just fine!) and then, a year later, a ClearNav Vario, both of which produce log files.

I also love the way some think it's unethical for the FLARM folks to charge extra for an ENL or IGC license for their products. The way I see it, they can either spend the extra money to develop those functionalities and charge everyone for them, or just charge those who need/want them on an a la carte basis. You can debate whether the cost for a feature is reasonable but the business model makes sense to me. A big plus is that unlike many upgrades, you don't have to send it back to have the added functionality installed.

Chip Bearden
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  #12  
Old July 13th 18, 06:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Posts: 239
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 8:46:31 AM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Could be as stupid as......
Corrupted card.....reformat on new PC (32 bit vs. 64 bit can be an issue).
Failed card
Different type of OS (32 bit vs. 64 bit).

Yep, never liked 8.1.
I use mostly XP, some on 10.


Eric, I no longer own a GPS-NAV, but still keep Aero Explorer Plus on a couple of Win 8.1 64-bit computers.
Win8 was an odd UI but easily fixed with Start8 (looks like Win 7). Compatibility with older programs is better than any other OS I've used including Win 7, 10, OSX and (limited attempt) Ubuntu.
For CAE+, I use compatibility settings for WinXP SP3. I have older programs running in Win95 compatibility.
And Guy, thanks for that software!
Jim
  #13  
Old July 13th 18, 06:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 27
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:50:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:

I remain to this day a little annoyed at the strong-arm tactics employed when GPS was "introduced" to SSA competition and we were all forced to buy CAI devices.


CAI loggers were not a forced requirement. Many pilots used Volksloggers in that era.


  #14  
Old July 13th 18, 07:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 422
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 1:16:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
CAI loggers were not a forced requirement. Many pilots used Volksloggers in that era.


You are correct that CAI loggers specifically were not a forced requirement.. IIRC, the Omarama WGC was the first occasion of mass use of GPS flight recorders (from CAI) and that was 1995. I located a copy of the SSA Rules for 2000 and cameras were still allowed then. I finally bought my GPS-NAV in 2001 but I'm not sure whether it was because cameras were no longer allowed or if I judged the competition disadvantage of cameras had become too great.. I suspect GPS became mandatory that year or for 2002.

Regardless, I found a copy of a Volkslogger user manual online dated 2000 so it appears that logger was in use about the time I felt forced to buy a CAI flight recorder. I knew a few pilots who bought a Volkslogger but the general perception at the time was that if you were serious about contest flying in the U.S., CAI was the way to go. I doubt if either of us could prove/disprove the accuracy of "many pilots" used Volksloggers in "that era" as it would depend on the definitions of those terms.

Chip Bearden
  #15  
Old July 13th 18, 07:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,153
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

Yeah, I forgot about ENL.* That's another thing my ClearNav products do
for no extra charge.* And I can use the igc files generated by them for
the Flarm range-checking software.

On 7/13/2018 8:45 AM, kinsell wrote:
Yeah I hate that pricing model, you pay for something, then pay again
if you actually want to use it.* I had to pay for both igc secure
logging and ENL to use with the motorglider.

PF does give you a non-secure file by default though, which can be
used with their range-checking software.* That's nice to show how much
better range the Core gives than a Portable :-)

-Dave





On 07/13/2018 08:39 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was very disappointed to see that I would have to pay a bounty to
get igc logging with my PF Portable.* Thankfully, both my ClearNav II
and ClearNav XC varios generate an igc file and it's much easier to
retrieve than from the PF.

On 7/13/2018 8:25 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 07/13/2018 07:21 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 07/13/2018 05:46 AM, Eric Foertsch wrote:
I have a Cambridge GPS-NAV. I am trying to download a flight log.
It looks like the Aero Explorer software is reading it from the
GPS-NAV ok, but then a dialog box pops up with an error msg "Error
writing flight log to disk."

I was able to download logs earlier this year, but was running on
a different PC with Windows 7 (I think). I now am using a machine
with Windows 8.1. I did try turning off the Avast antivirus
software with no luck.

I was able to download the log via SeeYou but I wanted to download
it via the Cambridge software for use as an official flight for
badge purposes.

If SeeYou works, just use it.* No requirement to use Cambridge
software. **Check the dates, many old recorders will show a date 18
years in the past, invalidating the log.* Submit to OLC as an easy
check for IGC security being valid.

Get rid of Windows 8.1, it was a disaster.* M$ tried to upgrade
everyone to 10.* But using obsolete software and hardware with
modern OS's leads to lots of problems.* Update to something like an
LXNAV Nano, which acts like a USB memory device and lets you just
copy the file out easily. Trying to use RS-232 devices in this day
and age is a waste of time.

-Dave




If you happen to have PowerFlarm, then enabling the igc logging is
another good alternative.* This saved me when the RS-232 link from
my CAI 302 into my Tophat computer stopped working at a camp this year.

The GPS-NAV puts out a binary .cai file, which is secure but
proprietary.* Has to be converted to .igc with an external program.
Definitely time to move on.

-Dave













Any ideas on what to try other than finding a PC with an older
version of Windows? (Or upgrading my logger?)







--
Dan, 5J
  #16  
Old July 13th 18, 09:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 76
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

You mean it's all just included in the product? That ought to really
**** off Chip. 'Course lots of things seem to **** off Chip.


On 07/13/2018 12:52 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yeah, I forgot about ENL.* That's another thing my ClearNav products do
for no extra charge.* And I can use the igc files generated by them for
the Flarm range-checking software.

On 7/13/2018 8:45 AM, kinsell wrote:
Yeah I hate that pricing model, you pay for something, then pay again
if you actually want to use it.* I had to pay for both igc secure
logging and ENL to use with the motorglider.

PF does give you a non-secure file by default though, which can be
used with their range-checking software.* That's nice to show how much
better range the Core gives than a Portable :-)

-Dave





On 07/13/2018 08:39 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was very disappointed to see that I would have to pay a bounty to
get igc logging with my PF Portable.* Thankfully, both my ClearNav II
and ClearNav XC varios generate an igc file and it's much easier to
retrieve than from the PF.

On 7/13/2018 8:25 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 07/13/2018 07:21 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 07/13/2018 05:46 AM, Eric Foertsch wrote:
I have a Cambridge GPS-NAV. I am trying to download a flight log.
It looks like the Aero Explorer software is reading it from the
GPS-NAV ok, but then a dialog box pops up with an error msg "Error
writing flight log to disk."

I was able to download logs earlier this year, but was running on
a different PC with Windows 7 (I think). I now am using a machine
with Windows 8.1. I did try turning off the Avast antivirus
software with no luck.

I was able to download the log via SeeYou but I wanted to download
it via the Cambridge software for use as an official flight for
badge purposes.

If SeeYou works, just use it.* No requirement to use Cambridge
software. **Check the dates, many old recorders will show a date 18
years in the past, invalidating the log.* Submit to OLC as an easy
check for IGC security being valid.

Get rid of Windows 8.1, it was a disaster.* M$ tried to upgrade
everyone to 10.* But using obsolete software and hardware with
modern OS's leads to lots of problems.* Update to something like an
LXNAV Nano, which acts like a USB memory device and lets you just
copy the file out easily. Trying to use RS-232 devices in this day
and age is a waste of time.

-Dave




If you happen to have PowerFlarm, then enabling the igc logging is
another good alternative.* This saved me when the RS-232 link from
my CAI 302 into my Tophat computer stopped working at a camp this year.

The GPS-NAV puts out a binary .cai file, which is secure but
proprietary.* Has to be converted to .igc with an external program.
Definitely time to move on.

-Dave













Any ideas on what to try other than finding a PC with an older
version of Windows? (Or upgrading my logger?)








  #17  
Old July 13th 18, 10:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,153
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

As far as I recall, it was all included in the price.* Maybe Evan will
chime in...

On 7/13/2018 2:57 PM, kinsell wrote:
You mean it's all just included in the product?* That ought to really
**** off Chip.* 'Course lots of things seem to **** off Chip.


On 07/13/2018 12:52 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yeah, I forgot about ENL.* That's another thing my ClearNav products
do for no extra charge.* And I can use the igc files generated by
them for the Flarm range-checking software.

On 7/13/2018 8:45 AM, kinsell wrote:
Yeah I hate that pricing model, you pay for something, then pay
again if you actually want to use it. I had to pay for both igc
secure logging and ENL to use with the motorglider.

PF does give you a non-secure file by default though, which can be
used with their range-checking software.* That's nice to show how
much better range the Core gives than a Portable :-)

-Dave





On 07/13/2018 08:39 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was very disappointed to see that I would have to pay a bounty to
get igc logging with my PF Portable.* Thankfully, both my ClearNav
II and ClearNav XC varios generate an igc file and it's much easier
to retrieve than from the PF.

On 7/13/2018 8:25 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 07/13/2018 07:21 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 07/13/2018 05:46 AM, Eric Foertsch wrote:
I have a Cambridge GPS-NAV. I am trying to download a flight
log. It looks like the Aero Explorer software is reading it from
the GPS-NAV ok, but then a dialog box pops up with an error msg
"Error writing flight log to disk."

I was able to download logs earlier this year, but was running
on a different PC with Windows 7 (I think). I now am using a
machine with Windows 8.1. I did try turning off the Avast
antivirus software with no luck.

I was able to download the log via SeeYou but I wanted to
download it via the Cambridge software for use as an official
flight for badge purposes.

If SeeYou works, just use it.* No requirement to use Cambridge
software. **Check the dates, many old recorders will show a date
18 years in the past, invalidating the log.* Submit to OLC as an
easy check for IGC security being valid.

Get rid of Windows 8.1, it was a disaster.* M$ tried to upgrade
everyone to 10.* But using obsolete software and hardware with
modern OS's leads to lots of problems. Update to something like
an LXNAV Nano, which acts like a USB memory device and lets you
just copy the file out easily. Trying to use RS-232 devices in
this day and age is a waste of time.

-Dave




If you happen to have PowerFlarm, then enabling the igc logging is
another good alternative.* This saved me when the RS-232 link from
my CAI 302 into my Tophat computer stopped working at a camp this
year.

The GPS-NAV puts out a binary .cai file, which is secure but
proprietary.* Has to be converted to .igc with an external
program. Definitely time to move on.

-Dave













Any ideas on what to try other than finding a PC with an older
version of Windows? (Or upgrading my logger?)









--
Dan, 5J
  #18  
Old July 14th 18, 12:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 422
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:59:00 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
You mean it's all just included in the product? That ought to really
**** off Chip. 'Course lots of things seem to **** off Chip.


Not really; it's a short list. So...congratulations!

Seriously, I don't have to "like" the way a product is priced. I can complain. But basically we buyers vote with our wallets. I hadn't upgraded my panel in almost 25 years and needed to replace a couple of CAI GPS-NAVs flight recorders so I was willing to pay up for the XC version of the CNv vario, which got me the thermal assistant (extremely important), the IGC-approved logger (very important), and navigation functionality (never used it and would love to have had a delete option). With the PowerFLARM, I have my second flight recorder (also very important). If I were in the market for another instrument and the flight recorder cost extra, I'd have to think about it..

None of this stuff is "free". If the manufacturer incurs costs to add features, we're going to pay for it one way or the other. I'd just rather shift the cost to those for whom it's really important.

Now is a CNv Club version vario (i.e., no thermal assistant or flight recorder) a great deal? Not for me. But for someone on a budget, it might be, especially knowing they can buy a license in the future to add the cool stuff later. If ClearNav wants to "bundle" the license so it's cheaper to buy the XC version now than the Club version with an add-on XC license later, so be it. That's a pricing decision. No one is forced to buy anything. I'm amazed at the profusion of soaring equipment manufacturers who somehow eek out a living selling electronic devices into the tiny soaring marketplace.

I've gone the open source/freeware route with Top Hat for my flight computer so that's my protest against high-cost soaring equipment!

Chip Bearden
  #19  
Old July 14th 18, 03:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
PMSC[_2_]
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Posts: 2
Default Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

If any of you guys want to send your outdated Cambridge Flight Recorders to the Post Mills Soaring Club, they would be welcome. We use them all the time, and they have excellent local support.

-Rick Sheppe

On 07/13/2018 07:21 AM, kinsell wrote:
Trying to use RS-232 devices in this day and age is a waste of time.

and
The GPS-NAV puts out a binary .cai file, which is secure but
proprietary. Has to be converted to .igc with an external program.
Definitely time to move on.

 




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