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Thrown out of an FBO...



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 9th 06, 01:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 597
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

Jay Honeck wrote:
We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all
the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane
there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to
visit, so it won't matter much.

But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.



As a former charter pilot, I didn't find your comments insulting or untrue.
Maybe that guy spread the cash around, but I can guarantee my employer didn't.

As for his thin skin, forget him. The world is a big place. Every town has a
greasy spoon you can visit. Life is too short to feel bad just because someone
decides to take offense at what was meant to be a joke.

That guy needs to go back to flying boxes in the middle of the night. He has no
aptitude for meeting the public.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com


  #12  
Old November 9th 06, 01:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Viperdoc[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

Jay:

My personal observations are that you and Mary are some of the most genteel,
warm, and non-threatening people that I have ever met or spoken with. It is
not your fault that some bone head old fart is hypersensitive, and you
should not take it personally. He is the one with the problem, not you.

Of course, it is upsetting, and ruins your day, but you took the higher
moral road and did nothing wrong. He is the one who should feel bad for
having hurt and insulted a potential customer. It was rude on his part.
Flying is a hobby that most of us do for enjoyment- I tell people that if I
need to get stressed over something I can always go back to work rather than
stay at the airport.

On the other hand, maybe you should go back to the FBO in central Iowa that
had the beautiful woman behind the counter- what was the identifier again?

Good luck. Still checking on the date for the MKE airshow.



  #13  
Old November 9th 06, 01:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

I've seen you post generalizations like that here in the past. Some times I
call you on it (to no avail), but most of the time I just ignore it (since
mentioning it does no good anyway). Maybe this experience will help you
rethink a little whether it's appropriate to stereotype people in the way
that you do. Just because most people would have handled your comments more
calmly, that doesn't mean your comments were appropriate.


True, my comments were inappropriate given his position, and I regret
them. However, aside from the obvious fact that you never, EVER speak
with a customer the way he did, it is common knowledge that (a) most
charter pilots NEVER fill the courtesy car, and (b) we all know they
don't make diddly squat for salary -- which is why those of us who
provide courtesy cars turn the other cheek and continue to let them
borrow our cars.

You can call it a "stereotype" if you wish. I call it "experience."

We have shared this experience with FBO owners in dozens of locations
across America, and it has always brought a knowing laugh and nods of
agreement. Every FBO owner in the country knows that most charter
pilots are going to return their car with the gas gauge sitting on
"empty" -- it's just something we all live with.

My mistake was in believing that I was sharing an inside joke with an
FBO owner and fellow courtesy car provider. At least yesterday, this
guy was a charter pilot first, and an FBO owner as an afterthought --
and he took the joke personally.

At this point the best thing that might happen is that he sits down
with his pilots, and drills into them that they should ALWAYS fill the
courtesy car whenever they use it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #14  
Old November 9th 06, 02:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

My personal observations are that you and Mary are some of the most genteel,
warm, and non-threatening people that I have ever met or spoken with. It is
not your fault that some bone head old fart is hypersensitive, and you
should not take it personally. He is the one with the problem, not you.


Thanks. I needed that!

On the other hand, maybe you should go back to the FBO in central Iowa that
had the beautiful woman behind the counter- what was the identifier again?


Centerville, IA. I've got her card on my monitor -- Kathy Bratz is the
FBO owner's name. What a wonderful FBO, in a very similar town.
(And, incidentally, we both commiserated over our "charter pilots
versus courtesy car" woes, and shared a laugh together over it.)

Good luck. Still checking on the date for the MKE airshow.


We're looking forward to it!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #15  
Old November 9th 06, 03:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stubby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

Expressing an opinion, a religious view, political stance or sexual
preference are now lightning rods for verbal attacks. I'm sorry you got
hit, but you did have a good day for the most part.


Jay Honeck wrote:
Decades ago, in my younger days (okay, waaaay younger), I was asked to
leave a drinking establishment or two, and I've had a few women show me
the door, over time...but I never thought I'd ever be asked to leave an
FBO.

To our amazement, it happened to Mary and me today.

It all started pleasantly enough, with a brunch flight to a small town
airport in North Central Iowa. The weather today was absolutely
gorgeous, with temperatures in the 70s and smooth, calm air above a low
haze layer. We called ahead to make sure the FBO had a courtesy car
available, and within an hour we were on the ramp chatting with the
line guy.

Sadly, our favorite restaurant (we visit this little town a couple of
times per year) had gone belly up after over 100 years of continuous
operation, so we asked the FBO owner if he had any recommendations. A
large man, our conversation made it clear that he had enjoyed the
culinary delights from most (if not all) of the restaurants in his
small town, and we made mental note of the ones he most recommended.
He then jovially sent us on our merry way.

After finding the recommended locally-owned greasy spoon restaurant
(always our target!), we were soon enjoying a tasty, affordable lunch
accompanied by rapid-fire repartee' from our blue-haired veteran
waitress. We had a great time with her caustic, slightly off-color
humor, and finished off with two pieces of her home-made coconut cream
pie. We were soon waddling our way back to the courtesy van.

As always, we made a bee-line for the nearest gas station, and topped
off the tank. In my opinion, folks who use courtesy cars and don't add
a little gas are abusing a very nice system, and we always want to do
our part to make sure that the traditional "airport car" lives on.
Minutes later we were back inside the FBO, fat, dumb, and looking
forward to another great flight home.

Walking through the lobby area, I called out to the owner (who was
sitting at his desk behind the counter) and thanked him for a wonderful
recommendation. He stood up and walked over to the counter to bid us
farewell, we chatted about the restaurant we had visited, and I
mentioned to him that we had "topped off the tank" for him in his van.

He replied that we "Didn't have to do that...", but Mary remarked that
we ALWAYS tried to fill the tanks, in thanks for the use of their car.
I then mentioned that we, too, had a courtesy van at our hotel in Iowa
City, and that I hadn't had to fill the tank in three years, thanks to
the generosity of our pilot guests.

He laughed and said that he "Had to fill the tank more often than
that!", to which I laughingly replied "Yeah, the only time the tanks
don't get filled at our place is when charter pilots use our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

His face suddenly flushed red, and his tone abruptly changed. "Well,
I'm a charter pilot, and I believe you're insulting me, now..." he
growled in a quiet but somehow menacing voice. Still laughing, not
sure if he was joking, too, but somewhat alarmed at his sudden change
of tone, I replied in a conspiratorial way "Well, we all know *why*
they don't fill the tanks -- they're not making diddly squat, and those
kids can't afford to shell out too much cash..."

This placated him not at all. He went on to tell me how he's got "Six
charter pilots working for him, and they all make a good wage, and you
shouldn't be making blanket statements insulting 'em that way..."

Just like *that* the atmosphere in the office changed, and I was
starting to get flustered at his sudden change of personality. Mary
piped up and said that this was all "Just our observation of the way
some charter pilots behaved...", and I replied that I was "Just joking
around..." -- to which he snarled "Okay, 'John Kerry' -- maybe you
folks shouldn't be coming around here and borrowing my car anymore..."


I was dumb-founded -- he was kicking us out, and asking us not to come
back! Mary (for the first time in a very long time) was speechless. I
simply didn't know how to handle a situation that had gone from
friendly to adversarial in the span of three sentences.

My surprise quickly passed, though, and I was well on my way from
flustered to incredulous, bordering on the angry. I just stared at him
in disbelief, but Mary quickly filled the gap, stating in her best "Mom
voice" that "Avoiding this place shouldn't be too hard." He asked me
if the keys were in the van, to which I replied in the affirmative. He
then turned on his heel and walked away, leaving us shaking our heads.

Our day ruined, it was a quiet flight home, as we pondered what could
make a guy snap like that over such inconsequential banter. The only
thing we could think of us was that he was having a very, very bad day
-- perhaps something had gone wrong with one of his charter pilots, or
a charter job had fallen through? -- and our jokes tipped him over the
edge.

We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all
the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane
there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to
visit, so it won't matter much.

But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #16  
Old November 9th 06, 03:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,953
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:28:02 -0500, Stubby
wrote in
:

Expressing an opinion, a religious view, political stance or sexual
preference are now lightning rods for verbal attacks.



"To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."
-- Elbert Hubbard
  #17  
Old November 9th 06, 03:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 316
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

Geez Jay,,, are you sure the jokes were not not about flip flops and
cut offs and this guy wasn't Steven P McNicolls???
Jay Honeck wrote:
Decades ago, in my younger days (okay, waaaay younger), I was asked to
leave a drinking establishment or two, and I've had a few women show me
the door, over time...but I never thought I'd ever be asked to leave an
FBO.

To our amazement, it happened to Mary and me today.

It all started pleasantly enough, with a brunch flight to a small town
airport in North Central Iowa. The weather today was absolutely
gorgeous, with temperatures in the 70s and smooth, calm air above a low
haze layer. We called ahead to make sure the FBO had a courtesy car
available, and within an hour we were on the ramp chatting with the
line guy.

Sadly, our favorite restaurant (we visit this little town a couple of
times per year) had gone belly up after over 100 years of continuous
operation, so we asked the FBO owner if he had any recommendations. A
large man, our conversation made it clear that he had enjoyed the
culinary delights from most (if not all) of the restaurants in his
small town, and we made mental note of the ones he most recommended.
He then jovially sent us on our merry way.

After finding the recommended locally-owned greasy spoon restaurant
(always our target!), we were soon enjoying a tasty, affordable lunch
accompanied by rapid-fire repartee' from our blue-haired veteran
waitress. We had a great time with her caustic, slightly off-color
humor, and finished off with two pieces of her home-made coconut cream
pie. We were soon waddling our way back to the courtesy van.

As always, we made a bee-line for the nearest gas station, and topped
off the tank. In my opinion, folks who use courtesy cars and don't add
a little gas are abusing a very nice system, and we always want to do
our part to make sure that the traditional "airport car" lives on.
Minutes later we were back inside the FBO, fat, dumb, and looking
forward to another great flight home.

Walking through the lobby area, I called out to the owner (who was
sitting at his desk behind the counter) and thanked him for a wonderful
recommendation. He stood up and walked over to the counter to bid us
farewell, we chatted about the restaurant we had visited, and I
mentioned to him that we had "topped off the tank" for him in his van.

He replied that we "Didn't have to do that...", but Mary remarked that
we ALWAYS tried to fill the tanks, in thanks for the use of their car.
I then mentioned that we, too, had a courtesy van at our hotel in Iowa
City, and that I hadn't had to fill the tank in three years, thanks to
the generosity of our pilot guests.

He laughed and said that he "Had to fill the tank more often than
that!", to which I laughingly replied "Yeah, the only time the tanks
don't get filled at our place is when charter pilots use our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

His face suddenly flushed red, and his tone abruptly changed. "Well,
I'm a charter pilot, and I believe you're insulting me, now..." he
growled in a quiet but somehow menacing voice. Still laughing, not
sure if he was joking, too, but somewhat alarmed at his sudden change
of tone, I replied in a conspiratorial way "Well, we all know *why*
they don't fill the tanks -- they're not making diddly squat, and those
kids can't afford to shell out too much cash..."

This placated him not at all. He went on to tell me how he's got "Six
charter pilots working for him, and they all make a good wage, and you
shouldn't be making blanket statements insulting 'em that way..."

Just like *that* the atmosphere in the office changed, and I was
starting to get flustered at his sudden change of personality. Mary
piped up and said that this was all "Just our observation of the way
some charter pilots behaved...", and I replied that I was "Just joking
around..." -- to which he snarled "Okay, 'John Kerry' -- maybe you
folks shouldn't be coming around here and borrowing my car anymore..."


I was dumb-founded -- he was kicking us out, and asking us not to come
back! Mary (for the first time in a very long time) was speechless. I
simply didn't know how to handle a situation that had gone from
friendly to adversarial in the span of three sentences.

My surprise quickly passed, though, and I was well on my way from
flustered to incredulous, bordering on the angry. I just stared at him
in disbelief, but Mary quickly filled the gap, stating in her best "Mom
voice" that "Avoiding this place shouldn't be too hard." He asked me
if the keys were in the van, to which I replied in the affirmative. He
then turned on his heel and walked away, leaving us shaking our heads.

Our day ruined, it was a quiet flight home, as we pondered what could
make a guy snap like that over such inconsequential banter. The only
thing we could think of us was that he was having a very, very bad day
-- perhaps something had gone wrong with one of his charter pilots, or
a charter job had fallen through? -- and our jokes tipped him over the
edge.

We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all
the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane
there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to
visit, so it won't matter much.

But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #18  
Old November 9th 06, 03:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ross Richardson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

Peter R. wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:


But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.



That's your conscience talking to you, Jay.

I have been in a similar situation twice. Both times I was the paying
customer and the other party was the small business person collecting money
from me.

The first time the bed and breakfast owner clearly overreacted to what was
a trivial issue and overstepped the line by tersely telling me that my
business was not welcome anymore. The second time a manager of a speedy
oil change shop, in response to my words, did the same. These two
incidents were separated by several years.

In the first incident with the B&B, I wrote a very strong letter after
returning home expressing the fact that I had wanted to make his B&B a
yearly tradition with my wife and me, but his overreaction had made me
think otherwise. However, I did apologize for my actions that caused the
outburst and ended the letter with the hope that he would write back to
make amends, too. He never did.

In the second incident, I returned to the oil change shop an hour after
storming off, parked my car, and walked up to the manager. The first words
out of my mouth were, "I am very sorry for overreacting and I feel really
bad for the way I acted. There is no excuse for my behavior."

He accepted my apology, extended a hand, and offered me a free oil change.
I politely declined, since I didn't want to take something I didn't
deserve.

In both cases, I felt I did what I could to correct the bad feelings. In
your situation, I recommend making a phone call to the FBO owner after
things cool down a bit. Offer your sincerest apology for what you
hopefully realize was a thoughtless and crass remark and let him know how
bad you felt on the return trip.

Whether or not you ever return to the FBO is irrelevant; at least you made
an attempt to rectify the bad feelings from that experience. The attempt
might do your conscience good.




Jay, I agree with the above also. You never really know what was going
on with him that day.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI
  #19  
Old November 9th 06, 04:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

That guy has issues. You must have struck a nerve.

But the shoe fits. He just wanted to shoot the messenger.

Sure there are exceptions but generally you are right. Many will not tip
while away. They add up all the money spent tipping and a year and say
to themselves, "Hey, it's better in my pocket than theirs." It is purely
a business decision. I have been exposed to them. As for the car, I
think things have gotten better now, I wouldn't know. But you do because
you are there on the front lines every day. The thinking was they are
buying enough fuel, or will on a subsequent trip. It's just part of the
workday routine, like saving paperclips in an office. ??

Forget him. If he is really a charter pilot, what is he doing on the
ground? He should apologize to you and your wife. He obviously is used
to having a hair spring temper and getting away with it. Is his fbo the
only one there? Or can you park at a terminal area? Fueling area?

I even tip the cabbies when I was away.

John

Jay Honeck wrote:
Decades ago, in my younger days (okay, waaaay younger), I was asked to
leave a drinking establishment or two, and I've had a few women show me
the door, over time...but I never thought I'd ever be asked to leave an
FBO.

To our amazement, it happened to Mary and me today.

It all started pleasantly enough, with a brunch flight to a small town
airport in North Central Iowa. The weather today was absolutely
gorgeous, with temperatures in the 70s and smooth, calm air above a low
haze layer. We called ahead to make sure the FBO had a courtesy car
available, and within an hour we were on the ramp chatting with the
line guy.

Sadly, our favorite restaurant (we visit this little town a couple of
times per year) had gone belly up after over 100 years of continuous
operation, so we asked the FBO owner if he had any recommendations. A
large man, our conversation made it clear that he had enjoyed the
culinary delights from most (if not all) of the restaurants in his
small town, and we made mental note of the ones he most recommended.
He then jovially sent us on our merry way.

After finding the recommended locally-owned greasy spoon restaurant
(always our target!), we were soon enjoying a tasty, affordable lunch
accompanied by rapid-fire repartee' from our blue-haired veteran
waitress. We had a great time with her caustic, slightly off-color
humor, and finished off with two pieces of her home-made coconut cream
pie. We were soon waddling our way back to the courtesy van.

As always, we made a bee-line for the nearest gas station, and topped
off the tank. In my opinion, folks who use courtesy cars and don't add
a little gas are abusing a very nice system, and we always want to do
our part to make sure that the traditional "airport car" lives on.
Minutes later we were back inside the FBO, fat, dumb, and looking
forward to another great flight home.

Walking through the lobby area, I called out to the owner (who was
sitting at his desk behind the counter) and thanked him for a wonderful
recommendation. He stood up and walked over to the counter to bid us
farewell, we chatted about the restaurant we had visited, and I
mentioned to him that we had "topped off the tank" for him in his van.

He replied that we "Didn't have to do that...", but Mary remarked that
we ALWAYS tried to fill the tanks, in thanks for the use of their car.
I then mentioned that we, too, had a courtesy van at our hotel in Iowa
City, and that I hadn't had to fill the tank in three years, thanks to
the generosity of our pilot guests.

He laughed and said that he "Had to fill the tank more often than
that!", to which I laughingly replied "Yeah, the only time the tanks
don't get filled at our place is when charter pilots use our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

His face suddenly flushed red, and his tone abruptly changed. "Well,
I'm a charter pilot, and I believe you're insulting me, now..." he
growled in a quiet but somehow menacing voice. Still laughing, not
sure if he was joking, too, but somewhat alarmed at his sudden change
of tone, I replied in a conspiratorial way "Well, we all know *why*
they don't fill the tanks -- they're not making diddly squat, and those
kids can't afford to shell out too much cash..."

This placated him not at all. He went on to tell me how he's got "Six
charter pilots working for him, and they all make a good wage, and you
shouldn't be making blanket statements insulting 'em that way..."

Just like *that* the atmosphere in the office changed, and I was
starting to get flustered at his sudden change of personality. Mary
piped up and said that this was all "Just our observation of the way
some charter pilots behaved...", and I replied that I was "Just joking
around..." -- to which he snarled "Okay, 'John Kerry' -- maybe you
folks shouldn't be coming around here and borrowing my car anymore..."


I was dumb-founded -- he was kicking us out, and asking us not to come
back! Mary (for the first time in a very long time) was speechless. I
simply didn't know how to handle a situation that had gone from
friendly to adversarial in the span of three sentences.

My surprise quickly passed, though, and I was well on my way from
flustered to incredulous, bordering on the angry. I just stared at him
in disbelief, but Mary quickly filled the gap, stating in her best "Mom
voice" that "Avoiding this place shouldn't be too hard." He asked me
if the keys were in the van, to which I replied in the affirmative. He
then turned on his heel and walked away, leaving us shaking our heads.

Our day ruined, it was a quiet flight home, as we pondered what could
make a guy snap like that over such inconsequential banter. The only
thing we could think of us was that he was having a very, very bad day
-- perhaps something had gone wrong with one of his charter pilots, or
a charter job had fallen through? -- and our jokes tipped him over the
edge.

We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all
the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane
there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to
visit, so it won't matter much.

But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #20  
Old November 9th 06, 04:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Burns[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 329
Default Thrown out of an FBO...

Don't sweat it Jay. Getting the same level of friendly service and
conversation that you and Mary provide at the Inn is very hard to come by.

Even if you hadn't planned on buying fuel (for Atlas), I would have gave him
a happy "No problem, thanks for letting us use the van, we'll tell all our
friends that you don't expect them to fill it with gas and by the way, let
your fuel guy know that we cancelled our fuel request." Then simply left,
letting him wonder how much you might have purchased.

The charter pilots that rub me raw are the ones that act like little tin
gods pretending that "they" have the sole decision making ability whether to
fly into a particular airport and or refuel at that airport. Most that I've
watched have had to call in and report the fuel price to someone who
actually gives them the approval. I doubt if that person gives a crap
whether the FBO has a courtesy car, a vending machine, or a bush to ****
behind, but the pilots put on an air that the FBO owes them special courtesy
because their company "might" buy some fuel. In my mind, these pilots earn
less of an FBO's appreciation than GA pilots. GA pilots usually have the
decision making ability and can choose to take their business elsewhere. I
understand that in cities or areas with multiple airports or at airports
with multiple FBO's, this might not be the case.

Another observation that I've made is that the most arrogant attitudes seem
to be expressed by the younger charter pilots. I've seen some older charter
pilots literally bend over backwards for their customers, play chauffer with
the rental car for them, offer extra food, soda, and even beer to the local
airport bumbs, even offer tours of their front offices. I've never seen any
of these actions exhibited by the young guns. Again, this is just my
observation and I'm sure it isn't the case everywhere.

Jim


 




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