Motorglider Tug

Who is using a motorglider as a tug? Please send details!

Your location. Country. Field surface, length, elevation,
temperatures.

What type of tug?

What gliders towed?

Good, bad, and ugly of using the motorglider.

Who insures? Costello, here in America, will not insure
a motorglider for towing.

Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Most motor gliders of the "Katana Extreme" variety do not have enough
"oomph" (HPower) to get a regular glider into the air. You may find that
some have done duty to tow ultralights aloft. Check out the USHGA web pages.

Most motorgliders (older types) do not have enough HP to get them selves
into the air on hot high days here in the mid-west. Although I do understand
that the DG808B does very well, but the Grob109 is very anemic. I've read
reports that the older DG400 was "doable" at a very poor climb rate.

BT

"Ray Lovinggood" wrote in message
...
Who is using a motorglider as a tug? Please send details!

Your location. Country. Field surface, length, elevation,
temperatures.

What type of tug?

What gliders towed?

Good, bad, and ugly of using the motorglider.

Who insures? Costello, here in America, will not insure
a motorglider for towing.

Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

BTIZ wrote:
Most motor gliders of the "Katana Extreme" variety do not have enough
"oomph" (HPower) to get a regular glider into the air. You may find that

Wrong.

We're using the Katana Extreme itself (100 oomph, which isn't even the
strongest one you can get) for towing in Niederoeblarn (concrete, 700m
runway, 650m elevation, up to 35 degrees Celsius). Up to moderately
loaded glass single seaters. Also possible for light dual seaters.

some have done duty to tow ultralights aloft. Check out the USHGA web pages.

Ultralights themselves are used to tow gliders hereabouts. There was a
towing competition in Zell am See recently, and the best ultralight was
comparable to a Husky (don't remember how many oopmh).

Cheers
-Gerhard
--
Gerhard Wesp o o Tel.: +41 (0) 43 5347636
Bachtobelstrasse 56 | http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp/
CH-8045 Zuerich \_/ See homepage for email address!

650M in elevation is approximately 1800-2000ft?
take that up to 3000ft or more on a 45C day.. our 235HP tow with a heavy 2
seat glider can manage about 400fpm rate of climb, now add some down draft
(sink) or rotor and I've actually had negative climb rates.. I would not
want to be doing that in a 100hp tug

BT

"Gerhard Wesp" wrote in message
...
BTIZ wrote:
Most motor gliders of the "Katana Extreme" variety do not have enough
"oomph" (HPower) to get a regular glider into the air. You may find that

Wrong.

We're using the Katana Extreme itself (100 oomph, which isn't even the
strongest one you can get) for towing in Niederoeblarn (concrete, 700m
runway, 650m elevation, up to 35 degrees Celsius). Up to moderately
loaded glass single seaters. Also possible for light dual seaters.

some have done duty to tow ultralights aloft. Check out the USHGA web
pages.

Ultralights themselves are used to tow gliders hereabouts. There was a
towing competition in Zell am See recently, and the best ultralight was
comparable to a Husky (don't remember how many oopmh).

Cheers
-Gerhard
--
Gerhard Wesp o o Tel.: +41 (0) 43 5347636
Bachtobelstrasse 56 | http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp/
CH-8045 Zuerich \_/ See homepage for email address!

BTIZ wrote:
want to be doing that in a 100hp tug

Theoretically, with 100hp you can obtain 10m/s climb rate with a 750kg
glider (about 5 kts or 2000ft/min). It's all a question of
efficiency (both glider and tug)...

Cheers
-Gerhard
--
Gerhard Wesp o o Tel.: +41 (0) 43 5347636
Bachtobelstrasse 56 | http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp/
CH-8045 Zuerich \_/ See homepage for email address!

BTIZ wrote:

650M in elevation is approximately 1800-2000ft?
take that up to 3000ft or more on a 45C day..

The 115hp version of the Dimona is turbo charged, so density altitude
isn't an issue.

now add some down draft
(sink) or rotor

This is a bad tug pilot who tugs through sink. And rotor... well, on the
downdraft side, you'll always go down with something less than a rocket,
I guess. On the updraft side, though...

Stefan

we don't tow through sink or rotor intentionally.. and for the local area we
know where to predict the rotor... but as for sink.. what goes up must come
down eventually.. and there is sink, to get back into the lift... can't
always fly on tow in thermal lift.. when the cores are narrow and strong..

BT

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
BTIZ wrote:

650M in elevation is approximately 1800-2000ft?
take that up to 3000ft or more on a 45C day..

The 115hp version of the Dimona is turbo charged, so density altitude
isn't an issue.

now add some down draft (sink) or rotor

This is a bad tug pilot who tugs through sink. And rotor... well, on the
downdraft side, you'll always go down with something less than a rocket, I
guess. On the updraft side, though...

Stefan

BTIZ wrote:

Most motor gliders of the "Katana Extreme" variety do not have enough
"oomph" (HPower) to get a regular glider into the air.

I don't know where you read this. Here in Europe, Super Dimonas (aka
Katana Extremes) are very commonly used as tug planes. Mostly the 115hp
version. Climb is not breathtaking, but it surely works even with two
seaters.

Stefan

BTIZ wrote:
Most motor gliders of the "Katana Extreme" variety do not have enough
"oomph" (HPower) to get a regular glider into the air. You may find that
some have done duty to tow ultralights aloft. Check out the USHGA web pages.

Most motorgliders (older types) do not have enough HP to get them selves
into the air on hot high days here in the mid-west. Although I do understand
that the DG808B does very well, but the Grob109 is very anemic. I've read
reports that the older DG400 was "doable" at a very poor climb rate.

BT

"Ray Lovinggood" wrote in message
...

Who is using a motorglider as a tug? Please send details!

Your location. Country. Field surface, length, elevation,
temperatures.

What type of tug?

What gliders towed?

Good, bad, and ugly of using the motorglider.

Who insures? Costello, here in America, will not insure
a motorglider for towing.

Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA






Urban Air Samba and Lambada do quite well, apparently the Pipistrel Sinus is
also quite good.

One reason being that despite lower horesepower, they are flying in their noraml
operating speed range when towing. As opposed to many of the other types that
are right at the lower end of their speed range and have high induced drag at
towing speeds... They are 60 year newer designs than the Cubs for example, and
hence benefit from better efficiency too.

----------
Dans l'article GKDkd.92846$bk1.22713@fed1read05, "BTIZ"
a écrit :


Most motor gliders of the "Katana Extreme" variety do not have enough
"oomph" (HPower) to get a regular glider into the air. You may find that
some have done duty to tow ultralights aloft. Check out the USHGA web pages.

Most motorgliders (older types) do not have enough HP to get them selves
into the air on hot high days here in the mid-west. Although I do understand
that the DG808B does very well, but the Grob109 is very anemic. I've read
reports that the older DG400 was "doable" at a very poor climb rate.

BT

"Ray Lovinggood" wrote in message
...
Who is using a motorglider as a tug? Please send details!

Your location. Country. Field surface, length, elevation,
temperatures.

What type of tug?

What gliders towed?

Good, bad, and ugly of using the motorglider.

Who insures? Costello, here in America, will not insure
a motorglider for towing.

Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA





My club uses since several years a Super Dimona with a 115 hp turbo charged
engine. We tow all gliders with it, including an ASH25 turbo (engine
unmounted) and a Nimbus 3 which is always ballasted, although sometimes only
lightly. Only when the waiting line becomes long, we also use our second
tug, a Rallye with 180 HP. Towing times are similar with both tugs, not cost
of course, hence the exceptionnal use of the Rallye, since the pilot anyway
pays the same for both.

Good things: nearly same performance as the Rallye for a lower cost. May be
used as a motorglider for itself when not towing, although this is very
rare. May be flown with just a glider licence, although not for towing.
No corrosion problems unlike the Rallye. Lower noise than most conventional
tow planes, this helped to buy it as there are public subventions for the
reductions of noise. Airbrakes, partial water cooling and closable air
cooling intakes help fast descent for minimizing tow time.

Bad things: the reliability of the engine is lower than expected. Maybe our
plane is an exception, but we had a lot of minor and major engine failures,
including a crack in the main engine body, which implied replacement of the
engine. Full power with maximum turbo pressure is limited to 5 minutes, this
doesn't hurt as most tows are shorter than that.

Runway 1000m, altitude 370 ft, temperature 20-35°C, reached 40°C in August
2003. Prevailing winds are crosswinds.