Big Kahunas

In article , "G.R. Patterson III"
writes:

Gig Giacona wrote:

And with the advances in science I wouldn't bet the farm that there will
never be another marketable Cuban mahogany tree IF there is sufficient
demand.

No way. They only grow to marketable size and quality when surrounded by
other
trees at least 60 feet tall. In other words, you would have to restore most
of
the Cuban rainforests to restore the mahoganies. About 500 years *after* you
restore those forests, you can harvest your first Cuban mahogany.


OK, the market will not provide real Cuban mahogany in our lifetimes, but if
the demand is there, it will provide some other material that will fill that
niche, in all but some very small esthetic differences.

Same is true for the ancient cypress lumber harvested in Louisiana. And lots of
other things that can only grow to maturity in a stone age economy.

The real questin is "Would you prefer the economic and technological realities
that existed before the Cuban Mahogany was harvested over he world today?"

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

" I call it as I see it. I don't care HOW many brainless knee-jerk
Democrat
voter-drones live in the highest-population-density-inner-city
cesspools --
this geographic map of the election results tells the tale:
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/usmap-large.gif

Jay,

I am genuinely interested, what data on this map supports your assertion?

- Carl -



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"Carl Ellis" wrote in message
...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ja2Cb.310866$Dw6.1046389@attbi_s02...
C'mon, the USA Today election map at
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/usmap-large.gif clearly shows that the
country
OVERWHELMINGLY supported Bush.
....

I am genuinely interested, what data on this map supports your assertion?

Jay has apparently managed to convince himself that the extent of a
candidate's mandate is better measured by the number of *acres* that voted
for the candidate than by the number of *people* that voted for the
candidate. When he stays the "country" overwhelmingly supported Bush, he's
referring to the country's landmass rather than its population.

--Gary

When he stays the "country" overwhelmingly supported Bush, he's

er, "stays" should be "says"

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:23:28 GMT, Gary L. Drescher wrote:

Jay has apparently managed to convince himself that the extent of a
candidate's mandate is better measured by the number of *acres* that voted
for the candidate than by the number of *people* that voted for the
candidate. When he stays the "country" overwhelmingly supported Bush, he's
referring to the country's landmass rather than its population.


"$%&$§!!!!
couldn't be brought down to 4 lines ... would be a great signature :-)

--Gary

#m
--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

On 12 Dec 2003 17:35:20 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article JtmCb.2429$pY.219@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:



But don't tell them that their children have to starve because you won't
purchase anything made of tropical hardwoods because the orangutans are
more
important than their children.

The idea is to tell them that if they manage their resources much more
carefully
then in the long haul they will be better off.



If you're so sure you can manage that forest better than them for the long
haul, then buy the forrests from them and manage them yourself, or through some
like minded organization. If you're right, you'll make a big profit and retire
rich.

We would need to show them that managing their forest themselves is key.
Give people responsibiliy and they'll become responsible.

BTW retiring rich or poor is not for me. Seen too many people fall of the radar
forever after retiring. But yeah helping other countries manage their natural
resources wouldn't certainly be a welcome challenge for me. That's a great
idea. A steward for the planet.


But don't tell them to literally bet their lives your way is better while
absorbing none of the risk yourself.

They've already bet their lives on the current scheme and if they don't
turn back they will lose.



The market will determine who was right in the long haul.

Maybe you have not noticed the "market" that you oversimplyfyingly refer to
has decided. It won't work, it doesn't work. But from your point of view
it seems to work great. You get your $5 dollar picture frame. The get a
barren landscape devoid of life and not useful to anyone.

R. Hubbell




Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:20:22 -0600 "Gig Giacona" wrote:


"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:GZ9Cb.177$pY.171@fed1read04...
Check out
the Toyota Prius. They're selling like hotcakes even with high tariffs.


GIG Wrote
That is what an free market does. Left alone a free market will cause
all
materials to be used for the most efficient use.


Dream on.

Your argument proves my point. If it becomes important enough the market
will deal with the problem. In this case the Toyota Prius. But I'd be
willing to bet they are not out selling SUVs.


Now I've got you! Mooohahaha. SUVs have been selling like hot cakes
because of at least two loopholes in the laws. One is how they are classified
and the other is a huge tax-break for businesses that buy them (a weight thing)

The "market" you lovingly cling to is once again artificially buoyed up
because it's rivets are popping and it's long in the tooth and creaking and
it's past TBO and it's ready to rest in Davey Jones' locker and it's ready
to go Tango Uniform and ....


Now the Prius has huge tariffs imposed by the US govt. and their are no
loopholes. (although I think in some states the state subsidizes a portion
of the cost, sort of like undoing the federally imposed tariffs)

Wdtabor wrote:

OK, the market will not provide real Cuban mahogany in our lifetimes, but if
the demand is there, it will provide some other material that will fill that
niche, in all but some very small esthetic differences.

Right. It's nonsense to say that the market will provide if the demand is there.
What the market does is to manipulate the demand. The market says "You don't
*really* want *that*. Here's what you *really* want."

As far as a material that comes close to Cuban mahogany "in all but some very
small esthetic differences", you're dreaming. There's nothing on Earth that's
close. I expect there will be about the time someone discovers the philosopher's
stone.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

In article , "G.R. Patterson III"
writes:

Wdtabor wrote:

OK, the market will not provide real Cuban mahogany in our lifetimes, but
if
the demand is there, it will provide some other material that will fill
that
niche, in all but some very small esthetic differences.

Right. It's nonsense to say that the market will provide if the demand is
there.
What the market does is to manipulate the demand. The market says "You don't
*really* want *that*. Here's what you *really* want."

Actually, what it says is that if you *really* want that, it will cost you
$$$$$. But if that is too much, we can provide this instead at $$$.

As far as a material that comes close to Cuban mahogany "in all but some very
small esthetic differences", you're dreaming. There's nothing on Earth that's
close. I expect there will be about the time someone discovers the
philosopher's
stone.

I have life a long and happy life without knowingly owning anything made of
Cuban Mahogany, though I have some items made of other nice woods. There may be
some things about the CM that are in some small way superior, but nothing I
cannot pass up out of respect for the owner's of those forrests rights to use
their resources as they see fit.

No doubt there are some Cubans who could think of better uses for the resources
consumed to make your Maule. We don't let them deny you that choice either.

That mutual respect for each other's freedom is more precious than the
difference in the woods.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article jWHCb.382382$ao4.1274100@attbi_s51, "Gary L. Drescher"
writes:


Jay has apparently managed to convince himself that the extent of a
candidate's mandate is better measured by the number of *acres* that voted
for the candidate than by the number of *people* that voted for the
candidate. When he stays the "country" overwhelmingly supported Bush, he's
referring to the country's landmass rather than its population.


Actually, Jay's map does tell us a great deal about the vote.

Those areas that produce more than they consume and pay more in taxes than they
receive in federal funds voted for Bush and those that suck at the Federal teat
voted for Gore.

Big surprise.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG