Pinckneyville Pix

"pacplyer" wrote in message
om...
ChuckSlusarczyk wrote

No need for any sir business I'm not that vain :-) But I appreciate the
courtesy.I'm just one of the do nuthin no nuthin loudmouths here on RAH
LOL!!! I
used to foot launch for about a year and by 1977 I had wheels. I was lucky
enough to survive the early days of Hang gliding AND ultralights. I think
the
guy your talking about was from florida ,I haven't seen or heard of him
since.

That foot-lauching stuff was pretty amazing. Shame cheap video was
not more common so that more of the "man will never fly" challengers
could have been caught on tape. I remember the ER pilots doing a "leg
up" to stow the gear. Flying around butt first. I always thought:
man, if the rubberband breaks at the wrong time, it's going to be a
tree-branch enema!

You should recount some of those tales here in RAH, chuck. We
self-proclaimed aviation gods in the peanut gallery MUST be
entertained or it's going to get ugly again!

;-)

pac

====================
What a stroll down memory lane. I saw John Moody do his infamous loop at
Osh. Later, I saw some chap attempt a foot launch in his Easy Riser and he
tripped at the runway edge - the pressure to merge with the other departing
traffic, combined with crosswind, got to him. Fortunately he was OK, but
some damage to his Easy Riser.

I still have fond recollections of foot launching at Coyote Hills Regional
Park out in Fremont, CA. Times were simpler and more fun - everyone seemed
to be willing to help each other. The image of a tree-branch enema made me
spew tea on my keyboard. Thankfully, I never thought of that as I retracted
the gear all those years ago. :-) Once I did land gear up while in a prone
position - smack into a clump of Poison Oak. The scratches on my forearms
helped the Poison Oak get a good start. But it was a nice landing. :-) I
was trying to extend my glide and misjudged the energy reserve to climb and
drop the gear in time.

Michael Pilla

====================
What a stroll down memory lane. I saw John Moody do his infamous loop at
Osh. Later, I saw some chap attempt a foot launch in his Easy Riser and he
tripped at the runway edge - the pressure to merge with the other departing
traffic, combined with crosswind, got to him. Fortunately he was OK, but
some damage to his Easy Riser.

I still have fond recollections of foot launching at Coyote Hills Regional
Park out in Fremont, CA. Times were simpler and more fun - everyone seemed
to be willing to help each other. The image of a tree-branch enema made me
spew tea on my keyboard. Thankfully, I never thought of that as I retracted
the gear all those years ago. :-) Once I did land gear up while in a prone
position - smack into a clump of Poison Oak. The scratches on my forearms
helped the Poison Oak get a good start. But it was a nice landing. :-) I
was trying to extend my glide and misjudged the energy reserve to climb and
drop the gear in time.

Michael Pilla



Hey, Mike...remember the GRADIENT? upon landing? Very few people know
about that. Only a hang glider pilot really knows what happens when
you drop through that last 15 feet and your headwind drops by 15 knots
and you drop like a brick. Only people who have ever flown that slow,
with a 18 knot stall speed are effect by that......or are they?

Get this. In a helicopter you could give a **** less what the
gradient is during the last 15 feet. You are at a high power setting
and no dependent upon the flow of air over your rotor disk. So, all
of the helicopter CFI's who teach helicopters have never really feel
that loss of airspeed in the last 15 feet like a hang glider pilot
does. In a hang glider in a 20 knot wind, you pull the ****ing bar
all the way in on your approach and pray you have enough ground speed
so when you go through the gradient you can flare.

Here's how it bites a helicopter CFI. He goes out on a day when
there's a 25 knot wind and does autorotations into the wind. At these
altitudes and temps the DA is about 6000 feet. In an R-22 you need to
carry a good 65 knots in order to have the energy at the bottom to
stop the descent. So, here comes Mr. flight instructor to demo an
auto rotation. He carries his 65 knots but then goes through the
gradient in the last 20 feet. He loses 15 to 20 knots of airspeed,
tries to flare and nothing happens, he just punches into the ground
in a nose high attitude.

In the auto rotation, it's the only time the helicopter flies like an
airplane...a slow airplane at that. These kids don't know about the
gradient. Helicopters are fun to fly in the wind. In fact theya are
more fun to fly in the wind (so are gyroplanes). But, there's the
gradient to deal with. In my gyrocopter I come in at 45 knots. Many
times in the last 10 feet I lose 15 knots. When that happens, it
takes everything there to flare and stop the descent.

All the hang glider flying I ever did is directly extrapolated to
gyrocopter flying and flying a helicopter in auto rotation. Most
CFI's in helicopters don't even know this. They get 500 hours total
time and they punch in one day, wondering why the flare did nothing to
stop the descent rate.

For those of you who don't fly helicopters this is the deal: You
can't do an autorotation straight down, pull pitch at the end and stop
the fall. If you do that, you die.

You need to have engergy in the forward direction in order to have
enough to stop the rate of descent by flaring. In fact 90% of your
total energy is in the kinetic energy you have by forward motion at
the bottom when you need to land. It is NOT stored in the main rotor
system at all. Only about 10% of what you need is in the main rotor
system. You need that 65 knots of forward motional energy to flare
and stop the 2000 fpm rate of descent. If you lose that airspeed
because of the GRADIENT, you can't flare. Just like in a winged
airplane. If you get too slow on the flare, you plop on.

There is nothing like a Trike, or a hang glider, or even a gyrocopter
to teach you this.

In airplanes it's not that big a deal. As you go through the gradient
in a normal airplane you are doing 70 knots or so anyway. So, a 15
knot decrease just makes a harder landing, it doesn't kill you. IN
fact you may not even know what happened to you and just think you got
unlucky a bit due to wind of some unknown origin.

You ****ing Jet Jocks like PAC never know anything like this. Hell,
you *******s land at 140 knots. A loss of 15 knots or so is nothing.

Flying a hang glider that stalls at 18 knots is where you really feel
it. You pull that bar in for dear life to get all the energy you can
muster in a head wind. You might get 30 knots. Then when you lose 15
of it, you are 3 knots below stall. You throw the bar all the way out
and pray you don't break your ass.

So, that's what I have to say about that.

**** ya all! and To all a good night.

BWB

In article , pacplyer says...

That foot-lauching stuff was pretty amazing. Shame cheap video was
not more common so that more of the "man will never fly" challengers
could have been caught on tape. I remember the ER pilots doing a "leg
up" to stow the gear. Flying around butt first. I always thought:
man, if the rubberband breaks at the wrong time, it's going to be a
tree-branch enema!

Yeah I almost hurt myself during a skidding landing when I hit my butt that's
what convinced me to install landing gear on my ER. By the way it's now hanging
in the EAA Museum .

You should recount some of those tales here in RAH, chuck. We
self-proclaimed aviation gods in the peanut gallery MUST be
entertained or it's going to get ugly again!

During my first Pinkneyville gathering when I think all the the RAH-15 were
present we all told some pretty good tales including yours truly. My stories
included flying early U/L's and a trip across lake Erie in my easy riser and
teaching flys to be fighter pilots.I'm doing a seminar at Oshkosh on the old
days and I'll have some old videos and old stories, check the EAA program for
time and location.

I wished I could have gone to P ville this year but I was in TN at the National
Indoor Model airplane Championships .I plan to go next year if at all possible I
always enjoy myself there.

See ya
Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

I wished I could have gone to P ville this year but I was in TN at the National
Indoor Model airplane Championships .I plan to go next year if at all possible I
always enjoy myself there.

See ya
Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I've enjoyed myself at Pinckneyville too....
I'm told.


Muzzleloaded BOb -

(Badwater Bill) wrote

It was the ultimate toy on floats. Until one day I was initiating a
water-tko and a boat ran in front of me making a large wave. I
aborted the tko, hit the wave and went over backward. As I capsized
backward I saw the surface of the water move away from my face as I
was dragged underwater. If you guys recall, the weight shift
Quicksilvers had two straps that held you in, one around each thigh.
They used a plastic disconnect that was rather hard to undo. As I was
5 feet under water and trapped in that seat I reached down for the
release and had a problem with it. I remember thinking to myself,
"You have one shot at this mutha. Just hold your breath, be
methodical, go slow and be deliberate. If you don't?you get to die
today.

I slowly unsnapped the left one, then reached over for the right one.
It was all in the dark at this point, I was 10 feet under water. The
right one wouldn't disconnect. I sighed in my mind's eye, and took a
second shot at it. Bingo, I was free. I swam away from the seat and
up to the surface. That was 24 years ago. Every day has been a free
day since that day.

Except today, since you posted it in RAH. I'll point it out before
"Anonymous Al" does: Your five minutes under water can not be logged
as floatplane time. This .05 hr time must go in the submarine column.
But since you were not checked out in the Navy as an underwater
diver, you must subtract another 30 seconds because the time you swam
to the surface without a vehicle attached to your ass was unloggable.
Let's get the experience straight for godsakes.

pac "analanonymous" plyer

On 10 Jun 2004 13:11:29 -0700,
(pacplyer) wrote:

(Badwater Bill) wrote

It was the ultimate toy on floats. Until one day I was initiating a
water-tko and a boat ran in front of me making a large wave. I
aborted the tko, hit the wave and went over backward. As I capsized
backward I saw the surface of the water move away from my face as I
was dragged underwater. If you guys recall, the weight shift
Quicksilvers had two straps that held you in, one around each thigh.
They used a plastic disconnect that was rather hard to undo. As I was
5 feet under water and trapped in that seat I reached down for the
release and had a problem with it. I remember thinking to myself,
"You have one shot at this mutha. Just hold your breath, be
methodical, go slow and be deliberate. If you don't?you get to die
today.

I slowly unsnapped the left one, then reached over for the right one.
It was all in the dark at this point, I was 10 feet under water. The
right one wouldn't disconnect. I sighed in my mind's eye, and took a
second shot at it. Bingo, I was free. I swam away from the seat and
up to the surface. That was 24 years ago. Every day has been a free
day since that day.

Except today, since you posted it in RAH. I'll point it out before
"Anonymous Al" does: Your five minutes under water can not be logged
as floatplane time. This .05 hr time must go in the submarine column.
But since you were not checked out in the Navy as an underwater
diver, you must subtract another 30 seconds because the time you swam
to the surface without a vehicle attached to your ass was unloggable.
Let's get the experience straight for godsakes.

pac "analanonymous" plyer


Not to be too anal, PAC, but IMNSHO, 0.05 hours is 3 (three)
minutes, not 5 (five) minutes...

Or, is this how you get 3000 hours of flight time in only 6
months.....

Jon

jon

(Badwater Bill) wrote

You ****ing Jet Jocks like PAC never know anything like this. Hell,
you *******s land at 140 knots. A loss of 15 knots or so is nothing.


Please tell this to my dentist. Everytime a new f/o doesn't know
about "gradient" dropoff the resulting earthquake knocks out my
fillings. But it's typically the differential shear off from 200' on
in to flare that gets us. It takes a six sense or previous wind shear
report to warn us it's going to happen. Otherwise, if da pilot keeps
rounding out to make his touchdown target, and gets just a little
slow, that swept wing will fall out of the air faster than BYB out of
a muzzelloader hammock. (Vref minus five is a big big no-no.)

Flying a hang glider that stalls at 18 knots is where you really feel
it. You pull that bar in for dear life to get all the energy you can
muster in a head wind. You might get 30 knots. Then when you lose 15
of it, you are 3 knots below stall. You throw the bar all the way out
and pray you don't break your ass.


But I agree, you "deadstick pilots" are real fearless mo-fo pilots.
Flying without motors.... One notch up from jumping out of perfectly
good airplanes if you ask me. That's some scary ****! ;-) Watched a
powered weight-shifer do a wild woofer-dil after t/o and almost smack
the ground at my airport during a windy day. The guy bought it up at
TSP in a non-rigid wing (glider) later the same year. They still
haven't found his body. (must be stuck in the brush somewhere, they
looked for him for about a week.) He was a big-time parasailer and
ballooner too. You guys must be good if you're still alive.

pac "hope-otto-can-save-my-ass" plyer

"pacplyer" wrote in message
om...
(Badwater Bill) wrote
snip
But I agree, you "deadstick pilots" are real fearless mo-fo pilots.
Flying without motors.... One notch up from jumping out of perfectly
good airplanes if you ask me. That's some scary ****! ;-)
snip

Well, look at it this way:
When I release in my 1-26, I'm out of gas, there's no radio, I can't start
the engine, only one wheel is extended from the fuselage, and some guy is
diving past me for the airport.

Everything that the guys in power planes worry about has already happened,
so what could go wrong?

Tim Ward

John Ammeter wrote in message . ..
On 10 Jun 2004 13:11:29 -0700,
(pacplyer) wrote:

(Badwater Bill) wrote

It was the ultimate toy on floats. Until one day I was initiating a
water-tko and a boat ran in front of me making a large wave. I
aborted the tko, hit the wave and went over backward. As I capsized
backward I saw the surface of the water move away from my face as I
was dragged underwater. If you guys recall, the weight shift
Quicksilvers had two straps that held you in, one around each thigh.
They used a plastic disconnect that was rather hard to undo. As I was
5 feet under water and trapped in that seat I reached down for the
release and had a problem with it. I remember thinking to myself,
"You have one shot at this mutha. Just hold your breath, be
methodical, go slow and be deliberate. If you don't?you get to die
today.

I slowly unsnapped the left one, then reached over for the right one.
It was all in the dark at this point, I was 10 feet under water. The
right one wouldn't disconnect. I sighed in my mind's eye, and took a
second shot at it. Bingo, I was free. I swam away from the seat and
up to the surface. That was 24 years ago. Every day has been a free
day since that day.

Except today, since you posted it in RAH. I'll point it out before
"Anonymous Al" does: Your five minutes under water can not be logged
as floatplane time. This .05 hr time must go in the submarine column.
But since you were not checked out in the Navy as an underwater
diver, you must subtract another 30 seconds because the time you swam
to the surface without a vehicle attached to your ass was unloggable.
Let's get the experience straight for godsakes.

pac "analanonymous" plyer


Not to be too anal, PAC, but IMNSHO, 0.05 hours is 3 (three)
minutes, not 5 (five) minutes...

Or, is this how you get 3000 hours of flight time in only 6
months.....

Jon

jon

Yes three minutes (.05 hr) of sub time is all BWB gets. Rounding the
30 seconds of surfacing time up to an even minute gives you four
minutes of sub time. Then there's the anal factor of someone not
believing he was ever down there in the first place since a google
search doesn't produce any pictures of the event and then they would
"discover" that it took a minute for the frame to fill up with water
before it sank. So you understate the time by another minute and that
converts to .05 hours... As Judge Dread (Sylvester Stalone) used to
say: "I knew you'd say that."

pac "new math" plyer

The Bad News:

Pinckneyville, IL, is listed as being canceled. I would imagine the
airport
is being closed. Anybody down there know for sure what is happening? - Bob
Seigfried"

Anyone here know the real story?



I hear the EPA is shutting it down as a Superfund site. Seems someone
spilled a cup of muzzleloader...

Mark Hickey
-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

It's OK to blame me, Mark..
What can they do to a dead man?

Everyone saw me die at Pville in 1999. :-)


- Barnyard BOb -