High time or missing logs?

wrote:
The first is a 65-year old plane

When is a plane too old - 65 years...100 years...150 years...how old?

"CriticalMass" wrote in message
...
wrote:
The first is a 65-year old plane

When is a plane too old - 65 years...100 years...150 years...how old?

Never, the older the better.

I agree. That old stuff spooks me. People talk about Cessna 172's as
being new if they are built in the late 70's. YIKES. Folks, NEW is less
than 5 years old or so...

CriticalMass wrote:
wrote:
The first is a 65-year old plane

When is a plane too old - 65 years...100 years...150 years...how old?

Dunno. When is a rock too old?

The fact of the matter is that any old plane thats been kept
airworthy for its life has pretty much had everything replaced at
one time or another.

Case in point. My Bonanza is 57 years old this year. I would have
to guestimate that only about 15% of it is "factory orginal". What
hasn't been replaced really doesn't need replacing as long as its
kept corrosion free.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

The first is a 65-year old plane


I'm totally floored that everyone just accepts and replies, with the
understanding that the issue is with a **65 year old plane**.

When do the flags start going up the pole? When the plane is 100 years
old - 150 years old....when?

The fleet average is over 30 years old now. Most owners of high time old
airframes will staunchly defend their mounts. They make statements like
"if it was maintained" and "by now everything has been replaced". When I
recall all the birds I have seen, the reality out there is quite
different. Most have NOT been "well maintained". Most owners are
operating on a shoestring and wait for something to fall off before they
fix it. When they arrive at the day when they absolutely have to do
something, they usually choose the cheapest method to band aid the thing
together. Over the years, all these patch together parts start failing
again and the list just keeps growing.

Very few owners replace with OEM or better quality. Fewer still upgrade
to the most modern version. This is especially true with avionics.

So, IF these birds were being taken care of, I would have no fear in a
high time, older airframe. But from everything I have seen, my money
will go to a 15-20 year old bird with 2500 hours or less. There are
exceptions but the vast majority of airplanes out there are flying junk.
Many who interact here tend towards the "upkeep and upgrade" method.

Good Luck,
Mike

I tend to believe there are two types of owners of older airframes:
those that can't afford newer as described by Mike, and those that have
a nostalgic tendency. Personally, when I owned my Funk B I kept it in
top shape and tripled my money on it when I finally sold. Yes, it was
only 3 months younger than me but that was part of the mystique.

To paint the owners of older airframes as condoning sloppy or cut-rate
maintenance is to use way too wide a brush. To me it seems there are a
greater percentage of 30 year old derelicts than there are of 60 year
old derelicts. (Notice I said percentage, not number).



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Spera ]
Posted At: Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:17
Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
Conversation: High time or missing logs?
Subject: High time or missing logs?


.... clipped...

The fleet average is over 30 years old now. Most owners of high time
old
airframes will staunchly defend their mounts. They make statements
like
"if it was maintained" and "by now everything has been replaced". When
I
recall all the birds I have seen, the reality out there is quite
different. Most have NOT been "well maintained". Most owners are
operating on a shoestring and wait for something to fall off before
they
fix it. When they arrive at the day when they absolutely have to do
something, they usually choose the cheapest method to band aid the
thing
together. Over the years, all these patch together parts start failing
again and the list just keeps growing.

Very few owners replace with OEM or better quality. Fewer still
upgrade
to the most modern version. This is especially true with avionics.

So, IF these birds were being taken care of, I would have no fear in a
high time, older airframe. But from everything I have seen, my money
will go to a 15-20 year old bird with 2500 hours or less. There are
exceptions but the vast majority of airplanes out there are flying
junk.
Many who interact here tend towards the "upkeep and upgrade" method.

Good Luck,
Mike

Well, everyone has their belief systems... 49 year old piece of junk,
Fat Albert, did the three states circuit again... Beauty is in the eye
of the beholder...

I worked the office until 1Pm so we didn't lift off until 2PM on
Saturday and it was hellaciously hot... Density altitude at my airport
was 2400 feet above the actual 600 foot elevation... At 5500 msl it was
still 78 degrees and the sun was like a blast furnace coming through
the plexi into our faces... We wound up staying at our daughter's
cottage on Lake Erie for the night (my wife and daughter snookered me
on that one - I was planning a night run across the lake, it would have
been beautiful)... We left for Michigan early Sunday morning... A
glorious ride across the lake with the sun just up in the east, early
bird boats motoring on a piece of blue-green glass leaving a visible
wake behind them clear back to the shore 10 to 20 miles away, lots of
dawn patrol chatter on unicom which was opposed to Saturday afternoon
when unicom was silent in the oppressive heat...... Interestingly, I
noticed that the US boaters pay no attention to ATC and the Canadian
border.... They just go where the fish are...

BTW, the B-17 Liberty Bell was at Port Clinton giving tours and hopping
rides... There was also an Avenger there doing demo flights... They
drew a good crowd from the general public... The weekend of the 4th a
Ford Tri-Motor was there also hopping rides... PCW seems to be good for
GA...

denny