If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
"Flydive" wrote in message ... You are arguing with the functional equivalent of a Japanese radio. He doesn't even possess the ability to realize he is wrong. |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
wrote in message ... On Jan 21, 2:29 pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in .com... Flydive wrote : wrote: On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote: Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch? The manual states: At 2000 ft CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF P/B DITCHING.....................................ON P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11 body angle and minimum ROD. Poster However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency. Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible. That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone seems to miss. I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority management. Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has not been done? There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the problem was. Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight. as they would have been too slow for a windmill start. Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW. They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in their somewhere as well. The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have. And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist. Bertie save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley. Speaking of rattle how's your syphilitic cough doing these days? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So, so, did your wife ever get better? |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
|
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Flydive wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote: There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the problem was. Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight. as they would have been too slow for a windmill start. Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW. They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in their somewhere as well. The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have. And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist. Bertie The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that situation. Do not know who did the ATC call, but that can be handled by the flying pilot. There was no runway to look for, once they decided that TEB was too far, and it seems that the decision to ditch was taken quite quickly, so no really nav selections. Once they decided to ditch because they figured that the engine would not be restarted, then no more relight attempt. If as you say they were going through the relight procedure, they would already had the book in their hands, no need to pick it up, just had to find the right procedure. I do not know about the Airbus, but in a lot of aircraft ditching is considered an emergency, once you decided to ditch that is the emergency procedure you are following. Again, maybe the Airbus is different, but for example on my aircraft the ditch switch does more than "sealing" fuselage, it does: -depressurizes the cabin (so you can open the doors) -Shuts down the packs (so no risk of pressurization -closes the outflow valves (so no water can get in. Nope, it just closes the holes in the belly. Check list also calls for pulling the APU and engines fire handles, you probably don't want to ditch with APU running (or engine you are still trying to relight) Well, maybe you should go and drive your airplane into the hudson and show em how it's done. Bertie Maybe you should learn to fly something other than your desk. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Flydive wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Again, maybe the Airbus is different, but for example on my aircraft the ditch switch does more than "sealing" fuselage, it does: -depressurizes the cabin (so you can open the doors) -Shuts down the packs (so no risk of pressurization -closes the outflow valves (so no water can get in. Nope, it just closes the holes in the belly. As I said probably the Airbus is different, on other aircraft the switch does a bit more. Check list also calls for pulling the APU and engines fire handles, you probably don't want to ditch with APU running (or engine you are still trying to relight) Well, maybe you should go and drive your airplane into the hudson and show em how it's done. Bertie Never said I would have done a better job, and personally I prefer to complete the flight to the destination airport rather than go into the water, we were discussing about the ditch switch and if to flip it or not. No, you're not. You're second guessing the crew. If the emergency check list calls for it is probably a good idea to do it, then if you prefer the creative way, well is up to you. I agree they did a great job, at the end everybody got out alive. That doesn't mean that we cannot talk about what could have been differently. You for example would have been trying to restart your engines after a probable catastrophic failure till the end. Yep. Bertie From the poster child for second guessing others. Did you think you held the copyrights? |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message . net... on 1/21/09 2:40 PM Flydive said the following: The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that situation. Have you been following along at all? As early as last Saturday the NTSB was reporting that that is exactly what they were doing, based on interviews with the flight crew backed up by the cockpit recorder. From Saturday's NYT: “My aircraft,” he announced to his first officer, using the standard phrasing and protocol drilled into airline crews. “Your aircraft,” Mr. Skiles responded. With little thrust, and with the plane’s airspeed falling sharply, Captain Sullenberger lowered the nose to keep his plane from falling out of the sky. And he set his co-pilot to work at moving through a three-page checklist of procedures for restarting both the engines. Hey Bich, long time. Still shadowing your hero ButtLipp I see. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Rich Ahrens wrote in news:4977f644$0$92352 : on 1/21/09 2:40 PM Flydive said the following: The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that situation. Have you been following along at all? As early as last Saturday the NTSB was reporting that that is exactly what they were doing, based on interviews with the flight crew backed up by the cockpit recorder. From Saturday's NYT: “My aircraft,” he announced to his first officer, using the standard phrasing and protocol drilled into airline crews. “Your aircraft,” Mr. Skiles responded. With little thrust, and with the plane’s airspeed falling sharply, Captain Sullenberger lowered the nose to keep his plane from falling out of the sky. And he set his co-pilot to work at moving through a three-page checklist of procedures for restarting both the engines. Well, WTF else woul you do? You're face with a probable catastrophic ditching or maybe getting enough thrust to nurse an airplane to a runway.... Bertie No, WTF, how the hell would you know? |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
On Jan 22, 10:02*pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:
wrote in message ... On Jan 21, 2:29 pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in .com... Flydive wrote : wrote: On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote: Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch? The manual states: At 2000 ft CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF P/B DITCHING.....................................ON P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11 body angle and minimum ROD. Poster However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency. Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible. That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone seems to miss. I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority management. Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has not been done? There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the problem was. Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight. as they would have been too slow for a windmill start. Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW. They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in their somewhere as well. The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have. And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist. Bertie save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley. Speaking of rattle how's your syphilitic cough doing these days? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So, so, did your wife ever get better? * JANUARY 23, 2009, 3:29 A.M. ET First Embryonic Stem-Cell Trial Gets Approval From the FDA Mx'y, see? It may not be too late for you to grow a brain. |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Didn't know that....
on 1/22/09 10:06 PM Maxwell said the following:
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message . net... on 1/21/09 2:40 PM Flydive said the following: The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that situation. Have you been following along at all? As early as last Saturday the NTSB was reporting that that is exactly what they were doing, based on interviews with the flight crew backed up by the cockpit recorder. From Saturday's NYT: “My aircraft,” he announced to his first officer, using the standard phrasing and protocol drilled into airline crews. “Your aircraft,” Mr. Skiles responded. With little thrust, and with the plane’s airspeed falling sharply, Captain Sullenberger lowered the nose to keep his plane from falling out of the sky. And he set his co-pilot to work at moving through a three-page checklist of procedures for restarting both the engines. Hey Bich, long time. Still shadowing your hero ButtLipp I see. Nope. Laughing my ass at how he's wiping the floor with you and how you're too thick to realize it. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|