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"System Failure Is Blamed In U.S. Downing Of British Jet"
System Failure Is Blamed In U.S. Downing Of British Jet
The plane, hit near the Iraq-Kuwait border last year, could not identify itself as friendly, a report says. By Associated Press LONDON -- A British military jet shot down by a U.S. missile during the Iraq war was hit after a failure of the electronic system designed to identify it as a friendly aircraft, the government said Friday. A U.S. Patriot missile battery shot down the Tornado GR4A near the Iraq-Kuwait border on March 23, 2003, killing both crew members. The jet was returning from a mission over Iraq. Defense Minister Ivor Caplin said several factors contributed to the fatal mistake, including a failure of the jet's "identification friend or foe," or IFF, system. Caplin released a summary of findings by a Royal Air Force Board of Inquiry that investigated the downing. He said the "immediate cause" of the accident was the Patriot missile battery that "misidentified" the Torna do as an enemy "anti-radiation missile" designed to home in on radar systems. Caplin said other factors included the "wide classification criteria" for anti-radiation missiles programmed into the Patriot system. He said the Patriot rules of engagement were "not sufficiently robust to prevent a friendly aircraft without a functioning IFF system being classified as an anti-radiation missile." The RAF report recommended that the IFF system on each aircraft be checked after takeoff and that the Tornado's IFF installation should be modified so a cockpit alarm sounds whenever the IFF system fails. In a statement, the U.S. Central Command said it concurred that the failure of the plane's IFF system was at fault. "The investigation board determined that the Patriot crew fired in perceived self-defense in accordance with existing procedures and Rules of Engagement," the statement said. |
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"Mike" wrote in message om... System Failure Is Blamed In U.S. Downing Of British Jet The plane, hit near the Iraq-Kuwait border last year, could not identify itself as friendly, a report says. By Associated Press LONDON -- A British military jet shot down by a U.S. missile during the Iraq war was hit after a failure of the electronic system designed to identify it as a friendly aircraft, the government said Friday. Ouch! ISTR a few Brits around here were quite convinced that the Patriot was the real culprit in this case, and were rather indignant at the idea of having to wait until the investigations were completed to get the complete story. Does crow taste better roasted, or fried? Brooks A U.S. Patriot missile battery shot down the Tornado GR4A near the Iraq-Kuwait border on March 23, 2003, killing both crew members. The jet was returning from a mission over Iraq. Defense Minister Ivor Caplin said several factors contributed to the fatal mistake, including a failure of the jet's "identification friend or foe," or IFF, system. Caplin released a summary of findings by a Royal Air Force Board of Inquiry that investigated the downing. He said the "immediate cause" of the accident was the Patriot missile battery that "misidentified" the Torna do as an enemy "anti-radiation missile" designed to home in on radar systems. Caplin said other factors included the "wide classification criteria" for anti-radiation missiles programmed into the Patriot system. He said the Patriot rules of engagement were "not sufficiently robust to prevent a friendly aircraft without a functioning IFF system being classified as an anti-radiation missile." The RAF report recommended that the IFF system on each aircraft be checked after takeoff and that the Tornado's IFF installation should be modified so a cockpit alarm sounds whenever the IFF system fails. In a statement, the U.S. Central Command said it concurred that the failure of the plane's IFF system was at fault. "The investigation board determined that the Patriot crew fired in perceived self-defense in accordance with existing procedures and Rules of Engagement," the statement said. |
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In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" writes: "Mike" wrote in message om... System Failure Is Blamed In U.S. Downing Of British Jet The plane, hit near the Iraq-Kuwait border last year, could not identify itself as friendly, a report says. By Associated Press LONDON -- A British military jet shot down by a U.S. missile during the Iraq war was hit after a failure of the electronic system designed to identify it as a friendly aircraft, the government said Friday. Ouch! ISTR a few Brits around here were quite convinced that the Patriot was the real culprit in this case, and were rather indignant at the idea of having to wait until the investigations were completed to get the complete story. Does crow taste better roasted, or fried? What I find intersting is that the Tornado Pilot had now way to know whether or not the IFF systems were working. You can't very well go to the "I'm really a friendly but my Transponder's busted" procedure if you don't know if its not working. It's kind of ironic, considering teh British preoccupation with safe lanes through the SAMS & AAA for busted aircraft over the FRG back in the 1980s when Imminent Nuclear Destruction was something real. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
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Peter Stickney wrote:
What I find intersting is that the Tornado Pilot had now way to know whether or not the IFF systems were working. The IFF malfunction experienced by the GR.1 (based on what I've seen of the reports so far) would have had the same tragic results in every U.S. airframe as well. I really don't feel comfortable treading into the specifics, but needless to say this could have happened to any aircraft experiencing this same malfunction. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
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"Peter Stickney" wrote in message ... In article , "Kevin Brooks" writes: "Mike" wrote in message om... System Failure Is Blamed In U.S. Downing Of British Jet The plane, hit near the Iraq-Kuwait border last year, could not identify itself as friendly, a report says. By Associated Press LONDON -- A British military jet shot down by a U.S. missile during the Iraq war was hit after a failure of the electronic system designed to identify it as a friendly aircraft, the government said Friday. Ouch! ISTR a few Brits around here were quite convinced that the Patriot was the real culprit in this case, and were rather indignant at the idea of having to wait until the investigations were completed to get the complete story. Does crow taste better roasted, or fried? What I find intersting is that the Tornado Pilot had now way to know whether or not the IFF systems were working. You can't very well go to the "I'm really a friendly but my Transponder's busted" procedure if you don't know if its not working. It's kind of ironic, considering teh British preoccupation with safe lanes through the SAMS & AAA for busted aircraft over the FRG back in the 1980s when Imminent Nuclear Destruction was something real. Yes and no. A total out and the aircrew would know. A mode failure and they would have to check in more detail. The basic level 1 was working they think but not level 5. -- ExpatEgghead http://expategghead.blogspot.com |
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"Drewe Manton" wrote in message ... "Kevin Brooks" wrote in news:FbidnTOlj- : Does crow taste better roasted, or fried? Did you miss the bit about Patriot rules of engagement being "insufficently robust"? Seems to me that calling for meals of crow is in bad taste all around here. . . . it was a tragedy, it was war, the two go hand in hand. The Patriot had its share of troubles, no doubt. But immediately after it was announced that the Tornado had gone down, some folks took a "it's the Patriot, stupid" stance as to assigning the guilt in this case, despite an early mention of the suspicion that all may have not been right regarding the aircraft's IFF. Now the chickens have come home to roost. And since you are so keyed up in still trying to point the fickle finger of fate at the Patriot in this case, did you miss the part that said: "The investigation board determined that the Patriot crew fired in perceived self-defense in accordance with existing procedures and Rules of Engagement"? Yeah, it was a tragedy--the ROE doubtless contributed to it, too. But those ROE would never have been invoked had the aircraft had a functional IFF transmitting the proper code. Curiousity compels me to ask--were you one of the guys claiming it was just another case of trigger-happy Patriot engagement after it went down? Brooks -- Regards Drewe "Better the pride that resides In a citizen of the world Than the pride that divides When a colourful rag is unfurled" |
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Gawd,
20 years ago (1984), onboard the Connie, as a young E-4 I stood 4 hour watches "shooting" using the then brand new APM-424 "star wars" test set on every A/C that was scheduled to launch. If the Mode 4 didn't work, they didn't launch,,,,period. Moreover, in the following 20 years, addtional improvements to the APM-424 "star wars" transponder test set and upgrades to the APX-72 and Kit-1C's have resulted in a successful method of determining reliabilty and accuracy of IFF systems onboard US Navy A/C prior to launch. I have worked at det sites with the RAF, they are incredible, top notch. However,in my opinion and experience they are willing to accept a little more risk than we normally do. The question is: Was there an adequate, reliable and accurate check of the Tornadoe's IFF system before it left the deck? Yes or No answers with explantions are all that are required before moving forward and/or speculating further. On Mon, 17 May 2004 23:37:23 -0400, "Kevin Brooks" wrote: "Drewe Manton" wrote in message . 4... "Kevin Brooks" wrote in news:FbidnTOlj- : Does crow taste better roasted, or fried? Did you miss the bit about Patriot rules of engagement being "insufficently robust"? Seems to me that calling for meals of crow is in bad taste all around here. . . . it was a tragedy, it was war, the two go hand in hand. The Patriot had its share of troubles, no doubt. But immediately after it was announced that the Tornado had gone down, some folks took a "it's the Patriot, stupid" stance as to assigning the guilt in this case, despite an early mention of the suspicion that all may have not been right regarding the aircraft's IFF. Now the chickens have come home to roost. And since you are so keyed up in still trying to point the fickle finger of fate at the Patriot in this case, did you miss the part that said: "The investigation board determined that the Patriot crew fired in perceived self-defense in accordance with existing procedures and Rules of Engagement"? Yeah, it was a tragedy--the ROE doubtless contributed to it, too. But those ROE would never have been invoked had the aircraft had a functional IFF transmitting the proper code. Curiousity compels me to ask--were you one of the guys claiming it was just another case of trigger-happy Patriot engagement after it went down? Brooks -- Regards Drewe "Better the pride that resides In a citizen of the world Than the pride that divides When a colourful rag is unfurled" |
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"Kevin Brooks" wrote in
: Curiousity compels me to ask--were you one of the guys claiming it was just another case of trigger-happy Patriot engagement after it went down? Nope, feel free to google it (though I doubt you have the desire to do so, I certainly don't!) but my stance from day one has been that it was a fog of war tragedy. Although I will admit to a wry smile when a couple of days later an F-16CJ fired on a Patriot radar system (I think I'm right in saying no-one was hurt in that incident, do you remember anything?). Just another chain of events in large scale operations that come together at the worst possible moment and create the worst possible outcome for those involved. -- Regards Drewe "Better the pride that resides In a citizen of the world Than the pride that divides When a colourful rag is unfurled" |
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fudog50 wrote:
The question is: Was there an adequate, reliable and accurate check of the Tornadoe's IFF system before it left the deck? Even if there wasn't, both RED CROWN and AWACS give you an IFF "thumbs up or thumbs down" upon check-in with them, so it was obviously working earlier. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
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