Sun N Fun '07 Redux

What? A complaint about =airplane= noise? From a pilot? Jay, no less?
At an airshow?

Whodathunkit?

I know it's funny -- Mary and I had a good laugh about it, as we were
cursing the pilot. It was SO ironic that Boyer would hire someone to
do his publicity in a way that created such ire.

But it was entirely innocently done. The pilot had NO idea what was
under him, in the dark, as he pushed the power forward. All he wanted
to do was get his "target" runway back underneath him...

What kind of airbed do you use? I find them to be appalling - I sink to
the ground in the middle, and all the air goes out to the sides, so I
sleep sort of folded up. Even if it's pumped up hard.

I'm not sure of the brand, but I think it may be Coleman. It does
appear to be optimally designed for two people -- when one of us gets
up, the other sinks dramatically. (Although we won't "bottom out"
unless the bed isn't inflated sufficiently.)

Nevertheless it is vastly superior to the old foam roll-up mattresses,
or (worse) the old blow-up air mattresses. The new ones come with
their own battery-powered blower, and we never added air all week.
They've really got seam-sealing technology perfected in the last few
years.

We've taken to bringing them on motel stays with the kids, as they
prefer the comfort of the air bed over any roll-away or pull-out
couch.

- Much of Florida is still completely undeveloped. Between
Tallahassee and Lakeland there is a lot of absolutely nothing except
trees, even along the sunny Gulf Coast.

I suspect there's a good reason for that. I think a lot of Florida is
sort of low and swampy.

Lots of it is pulp mill forests, too. It's quite pretty, and
unexpected in "the Sunshine State".

I was at SnF a few years ago, and had a great time. It seems you had a
smaller version. What do you get at Oshkosh that you don't get at SnF
(besides mosquitos the size of thunderstorms, and thunderstorms the size
of small states?)

We had a fantastic time at SNF, but there are many things about OSH
that are simply superior to SNF, and many things that are simply
different. Off the top of my head, I would say the superior things
a

- Runway Layout. OSH, having two major runways, plus several little
ones that can be closed during the show, is superior to LAL that has
only two runways.

This sounds trivial, but it's not. Being able to utilize two runways
simultaneously means that the airshow flows better in OSH, the inbound
and outbound traffic flows better, it provides much more airspace to
operate, and thus it's safer.

- Size matters. If you want to see EVERYTHING in aviation, you can
get it at OSH. If you want to see lots of things in aviation, SNF
will do. That's not the same.

- Ground Transportation. OSH has the art of people moving down to a
real science. Everyone, from the State Troopers out on Hwy 41, to the
newest volunteer, understands that keeping the crowd and traffic
flowing is essential.

If you ever drive into OSH, you'll see what I mean, as they have
entire thoroughfares that become one-way in (or out), depending on the
demands of the AirVenture grounds.

There's even a helicopter in the air at all times, directing which
parking lots and roads should be released next, so that traffic never
bogs unnecessarily. It's just an amazing system that has evolved over
many years.

And the tram system at OSH is simply outstanding, while the trams at
SNF are okay at best.

- Grounds Layout. The OSH grounds are laid out in a very logical grid
that makes navigating around the immense show area simple. SNF,
though smaller, is more difficult to navigate, simply because things
are not laid out on a grid.

- EAA. Say what you will about it, EAA is a class act, with a HUGE
resource of volunteers. This gives OSH a focus and an esprit de corps
that SNF doesn't seem to have.

I liken SNF to a frat party -- pretty well done, but not overly
thought out -- while OSH is more like a shareholder's meeting.
Everything is PERFECT at OSH, and has been for many, many years. SNF
is still trying to get it just right.

- Tradition. OSH is the grand old lady of fly-ins, and everyone from
the FAA on down seems to know the routine. People revel in OSH, and
take owndership of it, and wear its attendance like a red badge of
courage. Although I love it dearly, SNF is a distant second in this
regard.

I like Sun N Fun a lot -- it is a fantastic way to start off the
aviation "season" -- but it's still got a long ways to go to match
OSH.

Incidentally, in 25 years of attendance, I've only found the mosquitos
at OSH to be annoying once -- when we were parked next to a drainage
ditch in an unusually wet year. Most of the time they are simply not
an issue.

And weather? I've had far tougher weather getting to/from SNF than
I've ever had at OSH. April weather is simply wild, compared to July.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

They're both in their 80's. I think my dad
was disappointed that there was no B-17

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

Also- I wonder if the new format affected
the attendance. This year the event runs from
mid-week to mid-week rather than from
weekend to weekend. I'm not sure of the
reasoning behind that but I suppose there
are advantages and disadvantages either way.
It did seem that there were fewer attendees
flying in but the spectator crowd on Friday
seemed rather large. (At least the parking lots
seemed full for a weekday).

Yeah, we saw more arrivals on Friday then we did the previous few
days. I suspect that part of that was due to the big storm that sat
in the East for a few days, and part of that was simply people coming
in for a 3-day weekend.

SNF seems to get a LOT more people from the Eastern Seaboard than OSH
does, so any weather affecting that area is going to hurt SNF badly.

Saturday looked to be getting very busy, too, but we were off the
ground by 10 AM, so I don't know how it eventually panned out.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Thanks for your post Jay. Good summary. Good to meet you and Mary.

Thanks, Travis. Same here!

Now, plan on Wednesday at OSH, for the rec.aviation party!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

It was SO ironic that Boyer would hire someone to
do his publicity in a way that created such ire.

Well, that's how non-pilots feel about noise over their house near the
runway. Not to justify anything, but if you feel the same way (here),
it might help understand the ire they feel, and help see where it might
(or might not) be justified. Just apply the same reasonsing to both cases.

[the air mattress] does appear to be optimally
designed for two people -- when one of us gets
up, the other sinks dramatically.

I've heard rumors about air mattresses with independent bladders. I
would certainly be interested in that - there could be a separate
bladder for my butt (no noise from the peanut gallery!) and that would
keep everything on the level.

I've tried the camping type air mattresses with the lantern battery
inflators. I think they suck.

- EAA. Say what you will about it, EAA is a class act, with a HUGE
resource of volunteers. This gives OSH a focus and an esprit de corps
that SNF doesn't seem to have.

I thought SnF is also an EAA event.

And weather? I've had far tougher weather getting to/from SNF than
I've ever had at OSH. April weather is simply wild, compared to July.

There is that, but to go to SnF I have to give up a New England March.
That's like giving up sacrifice for Lent. To go to OSH, I have to give
up precious pool weather.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

After sitting in the Diamond D-jet mock-up, I too am now convinced that the
VLJs will see brisk sales. I could not believe how "car like" the cockpit
felt. There are probably more buttons and knobs in a Cirrus than in the
D-jet.

Of course this could lead to problems as well, I suspect. There is no
"intimidation factor" like when sitting in the TBM or like. Pilots who can
afford it will sell their pressurized C210 or turbo SR22 and step lively
into the new role of Flight System Manager. I just hope that they will be up
to the task of Piloting, when in the Mod to Severe that was shown by XM
weather to be an opening kicks the AP offline.

Point of reference: The Diamond rep felt confident that owners yearly
insurance budget shouldn't be more than "$24k to $32k per year depending on
flight experience" (his quote). Anyone know the typical for a TBM owner?

"K Baum" wrote in message ....
............... I
was facinated
with all the VLJ,s. My buddy and I were offered jobs at both the
Eclipse tent and the Diamond tent. It seems that they have some pretty
low time pilots who are ordering these jets, so they have set up a
pilot mentor program for new owners to fly with experienced pilots for
awhile. I think the insurance companies are playing a big role in this
program.

"Mike Isaksen" wrote

Point of reference: The Diamond rep felt confident that owners yearly
insurance budget shouldn't be more than "$24k to $32k per year depending
on flight experience"

24 to 32 THOUSAND???

Are you sure?

Wow.

I know I would be WAY over my head, when just the insurance could be more
than HALF of my gross yearly income.

Wow!
--
Jim in NC

In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:02:50 -0400, john smith wrote:

In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

The warbirds also were mostly missing at Arlington last year. Word was that the
fly-in could no longer fund the other items previously supplied to the owners
(hotel rooms, etc.). This was probably partially due to the lawsuit over the
RV-6 crash.

I'd guess this doesn't affect the attendance figures for aircraft owners/pilots,
but does matter to the general populace. A major factor for both SnF and
Arlington, since they're directly adjacent to major population centers and
depend upon general admission for a large part of their income. Not so
significant for Oshkosh, I'd think.

Ron Wanttaja

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.

When we organized our local show, in '06, we classified warbird
attendance as our top priority. We were able to get a P-51, several
Stearmans, and several T-28s, and they made the show a success.
(Note: Ours was NOT an "air" show, but the static displays and fly-
overs ensured a large local turnout...)

I know SNF isn't a local show in the same sense -- but the same
principles apply. They need to attract the warbirds, in order to
ensure the crowd. If that means extra costs, they're just going to
have to build that in to their budget.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

24 to 32 THOUSAND???

Are you sure?

Wow.

Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
insurance, from what I've been told.

Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"