If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
FLAPS
I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and
had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
"skysailor" wrote in message oups.com... I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. I'm assuming that your question is about a glider equipped with performance flaps AND spoilers. I'd suggest that if you can find a Lark IS28 b2 that you can get a ride in, that might answer your question. The Lark flaps work pretty much like they all do. In other words, no problemo. My first flight in a flapped glider (A Diamant) was at about the same number of hours you have and I had no problem with it. In fact, it was a blast to fly. Bill Daniels |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Bill Daniels wrote: "skysailor" wrote in message I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. I'm assuming that your question is about a glider equipped with performance flaps AND spoilers. I'd suggest that if you can find a Lark IS28 b2 that you can get a ride in, that might answer your question. The Lark flaps work pretty much like they all do. In other words, no problemo. My first flight in a flapped glider (A Diamant) was at about the same number of hours you have and I had no problem with it. In fact, it was a blast to fly. Bill Daniels My first flight in a flapped glider (LS3) was with 30 hours in gliders, and no previous flying experience of any type. No problem. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
My first glider was a 304CZ (flapped) when I had about 30 hours. No problems
at all. I much prefer flapped gliders because of the higher performance, and shorter landing field requirements -- 10 knots, give or take, less energy when you land. I think that's pretty significant when flying cross-country and facing limited landout options. -ted/2NO "skysailor" wrote in message oups.com... I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Ted Wagner" wrote in message news:1124852672.6a09312da6ceee89f29b6a8aae6c53b4@t eranews... My first glider was a 304CZ (flapped) when I had about 30 hours. No problems at all. I much prefer flapped gliders because of the higher performance, and shorter landing field requirements -- 10 knots, give or take, less energy when you land. I think that's pretty significant when flying cross-country and facing limited landout options. -ted/2NO I agree with the idea of flaps not being a reason to limit your first glider purchase. However I don't agree with the old wives tale of flapped gliders being safer due to their much slower landing speeds and therefore shorter stopping distances. An appropriately flown approach and touchdown with a modern standard class glider against the same in a 15 meter ship shows that they touch down at basically the same speed and stop in the same distance. What is much more important but gets less press is what kind of brakes you have and if they work well. Casey Lenox KC Phoenix |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
"old wives tale."
Now this is going to be a fun thread to watch for a while! :-) Larry Goddard 01 "Zero One" "Kilo Charlie" NOSPAMkilocharlie.cox.net wrote in message news:mpSOe.124815$E95.33431@fed1read01: "Ted Wagner" wrote in message news:1124852672.6a09312da6ceee89f29b6a8aae6c53b4@t eranews... My first glider was a 304CZ (flapped) when I had about 30 hours. No problems at all. I much prefer flapped gliders because of the higher performance, and shorter landing field requirements -- 10 knots, give or take, less energy when you land. I think that's pretty significant when flying cross-country and facing limited landout options. -ted/2NO I agree with the idea of flaps not being a reason to limit your first glider purchase. However I don't agree with the old wives tale of flapped gliders being safer due to their much slower landing speeds and therefore shorter stopping distances. An appropriately flown approach and touchdown with a modern standard class glider against the same in a 15 meter ship shows that they touch down at basically the same speed and stop in the same distance. What is much more important but gets less press is what kind of brakes you have and if they work well. Casey Lenox KC Phoenix |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"old wives tale."
Now this is going to be a fun thread to watch for a while! :-) Larry Goddard 01 "Zero One" "Kilo Charlie" NOSPAMkilocharlie.cox.net wrote in message news:mpSOe.124815$E95.33431@fed1read01: "Ted Wagner" wrote in message news:1124852672.6a09312da6ceee89f29b6a8aae6c53b4@t eranews... My first glider was a 304CZ (flapped) when I had about 30 hours. No problems at all. I much prefer flapped gliders because of the higher performance, and shorter landing field requirements -- 10 knots, give or take, less energy when you land. I think that's pretty significant when flying cross-country and facing limited landout options. -ted/2NO I agree with the idea of flaps not being a reason to limit your first glider purchase. However I don't agree with the old wives tale of flapped gliders being safer due to their much slower landing speeds and therefore shorter stopping distances. An appropriately flown approach and touchdown with a modern standard class glider against the same in a 15 meter ship shows that they touch down at basically the same speed and stop in the same distance. What is much more important but gets less press is what kind of brakes you have and if they work well. Casey Lenox KC Phoenix |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Some flapped gliders benefit from using 0 or negative flap during the
initial part of the takeoff, a slightly higher pilot load. Dumping or retracting flap in the late part of a landing can result in a rapid loss of lift and resultant heavy or worse 'arrivals'. Most gliders spin / stall charecteristics change depending on flap setting. Spin recovery procedure may involve flap setting. Now what will another 1, 2 or 500 hours in unflapped gliders teach you about all of that? Very little if anything but it may make your CFI more confident in your workload handling capacity. My suggestion, get some dual time, a couple of hours at least, in a flapped 2 seater, ( IS28, Janus, Nimbus 3d whatever ) and then get the instructor to give you an honest assesment of YOUR capabilities. Some pilots can handle the load with 30 hours, some with a hundred hours and some pilots are so far behind the aircraft they never will. Its your personal capabilities that matter, there is no prescribed point in a logbook that suddenly makes you capable of something. Ian |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Last winter I bought a LS3. I had 200 hours flight experience and it was the
first flapped glider I've ever flown. I had no problem using flaps in the first flight. During take-off I used 0º as flap setting, so it handled as a standard class glider. During free flight I used all flap settings without any trouble. LS3 flaps are very intuitive. Landing is a bit different as the flap in landing position produces high drag, so high approach seems to me a better way to land. If I predict a low approach I don't use landing setting, but rather +5º setting. Anyway, it was very simple to adapt to the LS3 flaps. However from what I've seen from fellow glider pilots, not all flapped gliders are as easy. I recall some guys flying ASW20 that in take-off they use negative flap setting (to increase aileron effectiveness, otherwise a wing drop was very common) and in the middle of the take-off roll they put 0º setting. I recall many aborted take-offs due to wing drops. I suggest you to talk to many people that know a lot on the glider model you intend to buy, in order to understand the glider behaviour and characteristics. José Barriga "skysailor" wrote in message oups.com... I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
I pretty much agree with KC but with one small difference. Some of the
flapped ships like the '20 have true landing flap positions. These gliders can be landed much shorter than the Standard class ships while maintaining equivilent safety margins. They do require a bit more technique to get the maximium benefit. Until those skills are developed, you just put the flaps in thermal flap position and it will land pretty much like a standard class ship. After mastering the glider in basic mode, the skills of using the benefits of the flaps for better landing performance can be learned. I can get my '27 in a much smaller place than my '28. KC is very much right on the brake. Good luck UH |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Negative flaps for better low speed aileron control? | [email protected] | Soaring | 41 | August 25th 05 06:01 AM |
f-84G Flaps question | Frederico Afonso | Military Aviation | 0 | September 8th 04 05:58 PM |
757 flaps miss-aligned in cruise | AnyBody43 | General Aviation | 1 | April 2nd 04 01:01 AM |
Cessna 182S flaps | EDR | Piloting | 7 | January 16th 04 02:37 AM |
Flaps and V-Tails of Death | Wallace Berry | Soaring | 59 | November 26th 03 09:54 PM |