If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#131
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
FLARM is an anticollision warning system as to the proximity
of other FLARM equipped aircraft. It is almost exclusively used in gliders - mostly in Europe. The manufacturer prohibits sale in the U.S. - people who have used it consider it to be affordable and effective. Probably because they don't want the liabilitiy lawsuits. |
#132
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote: "Ron Garret" wrote in message ... Says me. Well, aren't we lucky you dropped by. Apparently. rg |
#133
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
He glid, she gled, we will glod.
Well, I'm glad that's over with. Jose -- The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#134
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
Yes, this is one they'll have to argue out. The ROW rules weren't written with circling flight in mind. While I see your point, isn't circling flight common for a glider? |
#135
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:11:59 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in : [...] For example: under your interpretation of the rules, a balloon overtaking a helicopter in a hover would have the right-of-way and the helicopter would be required to give way. That certainly makes no more sense than requiring a balloon to alter course, and frankly I think it makes a lot less sense (at least in the converging situation, the balloon pilot can see the other traffic). Given the fact that the balloon pilot is at the mercy of the vagaries of the wind for his navigation control, and the helo is highly maneuverable, why wouldn't the balloon be given the right-of-way? One must give way to a balloon; to believe otherwise is foolish. So, which is it? Are balloon pilots required to alter course to the right? Or are helicopter pilots required to yield right-of-way to a balloon approaching them from the rear? You can't have it both ways. Beats me. You know, I write from the perspective of a certificated glider pilot who received his training in the early '70s. My recollection is, that gliders _always_ have the right-of-way over powered aircraft. Perhaps that is an erroneous notion today. It might be worth researching the historical changes to § 91.113. |
#136
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:28:30 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote in : alexy wrote: The head-on convergence clause is a little more problematic, as seen from the different interpretations here. One interpretation (shall we call it "Peter"?) is that the requirement that both alter course to the right removes the right of way from both. The other interpretation (Let's call this one "Larry") is that they are still converging, so the category right of way rules apply, and the "turn right" requirement is just for same-category craft, or is just advisory, not changing the right of way. Converging head on [...] requires both to alter to their respective [courses] right REGARDLESS OF CLASS. There's no ambiguity here. The rule specificaly says converging OTHER THAN HEAD ON OR NEARLY SO. The way I read § 91.113(d): (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories— (2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. it seems that both aircraft must alter their respective courses to the right ONLY WHEN THEY ARE OF THE SAME CATAGORY. In this case they were of different categories: airplane vs glider. (Incidentally, I see no mention of class at all.) |
#137
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... Given the fact that the balloon pilot is at the mercy of the vagaries of the wind for his navigation control, and the helo is highly maneuverable, why wouldn't the balloon be given the right-of-way? One must give way to a balloon; to believe otherwise is foolish. A balloon pilot is NOT at the mercy of the wind. It's true that lateral control is impossible, but that doesn't mean the balloon pilot doesn't have any way to avoid a collision. And it's simply absurd to think that a pilot who has no way to know that there is an overtaking aircraft is required to give way to that overtaking aircraft. And frankly, don't get too attached to the whole balloon/helicopter example. It's just an *example*. Even if you somehow, in a bizarre twist of reality, come to believe that a person is required to react to information they don't have (for example, manufacture a non-existent requirement to be constantly maneuvering so as to be aware of other air traffic in all directions), there are still other similar examples. For example, shall the pilot of a Piper Cub give way to a faster glider overtaking it? Are all power pilots required to constantly maneuver so as to know whether they are being overtaken by an aircraft that has the right of way? What's foolish is thinking that balloon pilots have no control over their aircraft, and that a person is required to react to a situation they have no way to know is occurring. Pete |
#138
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
The right-of-way regs are not really written to cover typical soaring operations where a large percentage of flight is in turning operation and the relative converging/overtaking relationship is constantly changing. Maybe not, but I don't see where there is any ambiguity. Either they were converging (Obviously, they were converging in the sense of getting closer together, but from context, I assume that converging here means each having a component of their velocity vectors pointing toward the MAC site.) in which case the category rules apply, or the jet was overtaking the glider, inc which the overtaking rules apply. At all times, it seems that the glider had the right of way. In the spirit of arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, one could say that at the instant in each circle when the glider was pointing directly at the jet, the converging-head-on rules would apply, so if the glider was circling to the left he was at fault. But talk about a stretch!! The question in my mind is whether she really COULDN'T see the glider as opposed to DIDN'T see it. Not sure what bearing that distinction may have legally, though. -- Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
#139
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Larry Dighera wrote:
You know, I write from the perspective of a certificated glider pilot who received his training in the early '70s. My recollection is, that gliders _always_ have the right-of-way over powered aircraft. Perhaps that is an erroneous notion today. It might be worth researching the historical changes to § 91.113. It might be worth reading today's 91.113 (c): In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over all other air traffic. And, reading (d) and it's sub-sections carefully may also add some clarity. Jack ----- Sec. 91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations. (a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation of an aircraft on water. (b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear. (c) In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over all other air traffic. (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories-- (1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft; [(2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. (3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.] However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft. (e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right. (f) Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear. (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft. |
#140
|
|||
|
|||
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
alexy wrote:
The question in my mind is whether she really COULDN'T see the glider as opposed to DIDN'T see it. Not sure what bearing that distinction may have legally, though. Moreover, it would be pretty difficult to prove either condition (couldn't/didn't). |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Midair near Minden | Fred | Soaring | 52 | September 1st 06 11:41 AM |
Cloud Flying | Shawn Knickerbocker | Soaring | 48 | August 30th 06 07:21 AM |
Refinish a Glider in Europe | Jim Culp | Soaring | 0 | November 18th 05 04:00 PM |
Bad publicity | David Starer | Soaring | 18 | March 8th 04 03:57 PM |
Newbie seeking glider purchase advice | Ted Wagner | Soaring | 19 | January 2nd 04 07:00 PM |