If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
Severe clear today, so other then the safety net of ATC services, weather
wasn't an issue. Coming back from HBG (Hattiesburg MS) to MBO (Madison MS) encountered the following exchange with ATC. I was already told to expect the visual approach in my inital contact with approach controller. Frequency, while not wall to wall traffic, was busier then normal. ATC Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight. Me 43L will report Madison in sight. Me Approach 43L, has Madison in sight ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a good evening Me Uh, 43L would like to cancel IFR at this time. ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR. Me, Uh, will assume IFR cancellation received, squawking VFR, good evening. I change to Unicom and land as normal. After landing, switch over to Clearance and Delivery (CD) to see if indeed my IFR cancellation was received, but it was busy with the controller handling approach and departure traffic (one guy does all I guess?) so I didn't interrupt the frequency. Took my time tying down and hung around for a bit just in case ATC called the airport, in which they did not (seen this done many times when IFR traffic forgets to call CD) so I felt comfortable that the airspace was re-opened for arrivals. Queston one: I never was cleared for the visual which caught me off guard on my forth line, and since it was severe clear, I figured go ahead and cancel my IFR thus negating my need for the visual clearance. No biggie, but shouldn't I have been cleared for the visual before radar services are terminated? Question two: While I wanted on the tapes that IFR cancellation was received (see last transmission by me), was I truly and properly cancelled out of the IFR system? Since the frequency was busy, figured to let sleeping dogs rest, but I wasn't comfortable with the fact that I didn't hear the buzz words "IFR cancellation received". Question three: Is this worthy of ASR filing? No safety issue by any means, but there were areas left wide open for miscommunication (I.E. not getting the airpsace freed up for the next IFR arrival). Allen |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
A Lieberma wrote:
Queston one: I never was cleared for the visual which caught me off guard on my forth line, and since it was severe clear, I figured go ahead and cancel my IFR thus negating my need for the visual clearance. No biggie, but shouldn't I have been cleared for the visual before radar services are terminated? There seems to be a disconnect as you have noticed. This is not the way to handle visual approaches for IFR. While "Radar Services Terminated" doesn't imply IFR cancellation, the squawk VFR would lead me to wonder if the controller had lost track of the fact that you were IFR to begin with. Question two: While I wanted on the tapes that IFR cancellation was received (see last transmission by me), was I truly and properly cancelled out of the IFR system? Since the frequency was busy, figured to let sleeping dogs rest, but I wasn't comfortable with the fact that I didn't hear the buzz words "IFR cancellation received". I wouldn't be too worried about that. There are a lot of checks for unclosed flight plans and if they find you before they launch search and rescue I can't imagine the FAA persuing it. Question three: Is this worthy of ASR filing? No safety issue by any means, but there were areas left wide open for miscommunication (I.E. not getting the airpsace freed up for the next IFR arrival). It's VERY MUCH WORTY of an ASRS filing. Not just because of the "Get out of jail free" feature. There is something really non-standard going on here and checking up on potential safety issues is what ASRS is really for. I might even just inquire with the facility QA person as to just what exactly what is going on. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
I would file the ASR which can now be done on-line.
I think the controller forgot that you were an IFR handoff an not a VFR getting traffic advisories. "A Lieberma" wrote in message . 18... | Severe clear today, so other then the safety net of ATC services, weather | wasn't an issue. | | Coming back from HBG (Hattiesburg MS) to MBO (Madison MS) encountered the | following exchange with ATC. I was already told to expect the visual | approach in my inital contact with approach controller. Frequency, while | not wall to wall traffic, was busier then normal. | | ATC Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight. | Me 43L will report Madison in sight. | Me Approach 43L, has Madison in sight | ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a good evening | Me Uh, 43L would like to cancel IFR at this time. | ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR. | Me, Uh, will assume IFR cancellation received, squawking VFR, good | evening. | | I change to Unicom and land as normal. After landing, switch over to | Clearance and Delivery (CD) to see if indeed my IFR cancellation was | received, but it was busy with the controller handling approach and | departure traffic (one guy does all I guess?) so I didn't interrupt the | frequency. | | Took my time tying down and hung around for a bit just in case ATC called | the airport, in which they did not (seen this done many times when IFR | traffic forgets to call CD) so I felt comfortable that the airspace was | re-opened for arrivals. | | Queston one: I never was cleared for the visual which caught me off | guard on my forth line, and since it was severe clear, I figured go ahead | and cancel my IFR thus negating my need for the visual clearance. No | biggie, but shouldn't I have been cleared for the visual before radar | services are terminated? | | Question two: While I wanted on the tapes that IFR cancellation was | received (see last transmission by me), was I truly and properly | cancelled out of the IFR system? Since the frequency was busy, figured | to let sleeping dogs rest, but I wasn't comfortable with the fact that I | didn't hear the buzz words "IFR cancellation received". | | Question three: Is this worthy of ASR filing? No safety issue by any | means, but there were areas left wide open for miscommunication (I.E. not | getting the airpsace freed up for the next IFR arrival). | | Allen |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote: Question two: While I wanted on the tapes that IFR cancellation was received (see last transmission by me), was I truly and properly cancelled out of the IFR system? Since the frequency was busy, figured to let sleeping dogs rest, but I wasn't comfortable with the fact that I didn't hear the buzz words "IFR cancellation received". I wouldn't be too worried about that. There are a lot of checks for unclosed flight plans and if they find you before they launch search and rescue I can't imagine the FAA persuing it. If you were concerned that the controller hadn't cancelled your IFR, you could have called 1-800-WX-BRIEF and cancelled (again) on the phone. I do agree that something seems to have gone funny here. It could just be some non-standard phraseology on the part of the controller, or it could be that he actually thought you were VFR all along (although, the "descend and maintain 2000" makes me doubt that). An ASRS report couldn't hurt. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
"A Lieberma" wrote in message . 18... Severe clear today, so other then the safety net of ATC services, weather wasn't an issue. Coming back from HBG (Hattiesburg MS) to MBO (Madison MS) encountered the following exchange with ATC. I was already told to expect the visual approach in my inital contact with approach controller. Frequency, while not wall to wall traffic, was busier then normal. ATC Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight. Me 43L will report Madison in sight. Me Approach 43L, has Madison in sight ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a good evening Me Uh, 43L would like to cancel IFR at this time. ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR. Me, Uh, will assume IFR cancellation received, squawking VFR, good evening. I change to Unicom and land as normal. After landing, switch over to Clearance and Delivery (CD) to see if indeed my IFR cancellation was received, but it was busy with the controller handling approach and departure traffic (one guy does all I guess?) so I didn't interrupt the frequency. Took my time tying down and hung around for a bit just in case ATC called the airport, in which they did not (seen this done many times when IFR traffic forgets to call CD) so I felt comfortable that the airspace was re-opened for arrivals. Queston one: I never was cleared for the visual which caught me off guard on my forth line, and since it was severe clear, I figured go ahead and cancel my IFR thus negating my need for the visual clearance. No biggie, but shouldn't I have been cleared for the visual before radar services are terminated? Yes. Somewhere between "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight." and "43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a good evening." the controller forgot you were operating IFR. Question two: While I wanted on the tapes that IFR cancellation was received (see last transmission by me), was I truly and properly cancelled out of the IFR system? Since the frequency was busy, figured to let sleeping dogs rest, but I wasn't comfortable with the fact that I didn't hear the buzz words "IFR cancellation received". Properly? No. But you're at the end of the line anyway. If the approach controller believes you're VFR you're out of the IFR system. Question three: Is this worthy of ASR filing? No safety issue by any means, but there were areas left wide open for miscommunication (I.E. not getting the airpsace freed up for the next IFR arrival). Any anomaly is worthy of filing. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight."
imply the controller thought he was IFR? Wouldn't he say the same thing with VFR flight following (traffic advisories)? you 'da man! "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... snip Yes. Somewhere between "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight." and "43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a good evening." the controller forgot you were operating IFR. snip |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
"dlevy" wrote in message ... Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight." imply the controller thought he was IFR? Yes. Wouldn't he say the same thing with VFR flight following (traffic advisories)? No. Recall that he was told to expect a visual approach on initial contact with Jackson approach. Only an IFR arrival would be told to expect a visual approach. The controller told him to report Madison in sight so that he could issue the visual approach clearance, so he's still thinking IFR at that point. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
In article ,
"dlevy" wrote: Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight." imply the controller thought he was IFR? Assignment of an altitude pretty much means IFR. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Assignment of an altitude pretty much means IFR. VFR aircraft can be assigned an altitude in Class C airspace, at 2000 MSL over MBO he'd be in the Jackson Class C airspace. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
IFR Cancellation Question
Ron Natalie wrote in
: It's VERY MUCH WORTY of an ASRS filing. Not just because of the "Get out of jail free" feature. There is something really non-standard going on here and checking up on potential safety issues is what ASRS is really for. Well, *I think* I submitted a form????? Downloaded the Adobe form, and at the bottom, has a submit button. Got a promt warning me I couldn't save the filled out data, push OK, but no computerized acknowledgement that it was even sent. Guess time will tell if I get the top part of the form or not... I might even just inquire with the facility QA person as to just what exactly what is going on. Since this is a first time occurrence and no safety issue came up, won't make a big ado of this, just the ASRS report should suffice. I have never had bad services from ATC, in fact always the other way around, outstanding service. I guess the crux of this post was to be sure I wasn't out to lunch expecting certain phraseology from ATC. Allen |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Lyc. O-360 cylinder question | JB | Owning | 13 | November 27th 04 09:32 PM |
Handheld battery question | RobsSanta | General Aviation | 8 | September 19th 04 03:07 PM |
A question on Airworthiness Inspection | Dave S | Home Built | 1 | August 10th 04 05:07 AM |
Question | Charles S | Home Built | 4 | April 5th 04 09:10 PM |
Partnership Question | Harry Gordon | Owning | 4 | August 16th 03 11:23 PM |