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#41
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Pilot Suicides
Crash Lander wrote: "Jose" wrote in message ... Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a brief pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has already done one or not? Yes. But that doesn't mean that the student needs to be supervised while he does his own preflight. Jose How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway? Crash Lander Each instructor will have a preferred method for handling student pre-flights based on personal experience. You want the student to develop confidence, and allowing the student to do the pre-flight naturally fits into that side of the learning curve. This however doesn't release the instructor from the responsibility for the pre-flight being done correctly. I've seen instructors use just about every method one can think of for handling pre-flights. In all the years I was instructing, I never had a situation where my student was sent out alone to preflight an airplane that the student was scheduled in with me as the instructor. This doesn't mean I rode herd on the student's pre-flight either. It means that the pre-flight was always treated as part of the dual period. The student always did the pre-flight with me simply watching. A good thorough pre-flight shouldn't take all that long to perform if done correctly. It was always my policy, especially if a Hobbs meter was involved, to schedule each student with enough time the student to do the pre-flight normally as we went out to the airplane together. It's notable also, from an instructor's point of view, that seldom was one of these pre-flights performed where absolutely no comment was necessary between myself and the student involved. Point here is that every moment of a dual session can and should be a learning experience for a student. I always made a point of placing the emphasis on the pre-flight with the student, with comment from me only when appropriate. Using this method proved over time to instill both confidence in the student as his/her pre-flight skills increased to competent levels, and also serve as a silently observed double check on the aircraft's condition by me that satisfied safety requirements. In my opinion, there should never be a situation for an instructor that includes saving time as a factor in a pre-flight. If this is an issue, students are being scheduled too closely together. Dudley Henriques |
#42
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Pilot Suicides
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0800, Crash Lander wrote
(in article ): "Jose" wrote in message ... Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a brief pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has already done one or not? Yes. But that doesn't mean that the student needs to be supervised while he does his own preflight. Jose How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway? Crash Lander An instructor, who knows exactly what he is looking for and where to look for it, can do a preflight in a fraction of the time that a student can. If I have to stand over a student while he does the preflight, then I am going to charge for my time. -- Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor |
#43
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Pilot Suicides
"Jay Beckman" wrote:
Mine always checked the oil, sticked the tanks (and double checked the fuel caps..) and generally did a basic walk around *after* I'd preflighted. He was certainly making sure I wasn't going to kill us both but under the guise of education, he'd always "hey c'mere" me and we'd discuss pitch (while he checked the elevator), roll (while he checked the ailerons), etc... He didn't check every nut and bolt like I did (and still do) but he had a right to protect his butt... I'm not sure if they were doing it then, Jay, but when I worked there, the CFIs almost always added .2 or .3 (around 20 minutes) to the instructor's time to cover the few minutes of "dual" preflighting and post-flight debrief -- charged as "Ground". (My preflight still includes every nut and bolt, too!) |
#44
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Pilot Suicides
On Mar 7, 7:27 pm, "Crash Lander" wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in oglegroups.com... If a student is going for a flight, with the instructor, and the student is expected to pre-flight the a/c before the instructor gets there, whjat happens if there is an incident, and it turns out to be due to something that should have been picked up in the pre-flight? Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a brief pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has already done one or not? if the a/c crashes, it's the instructor who is responsible, because the instructor is PIC when flying dual with a student. If I've been teaching in the plane all day I can preflight it again for the next trip out in about 5 minutes. I don't want to force the student to do the same. I'm not aware of any school that makes the CFI stand around and watch every preflight (usually just the pre-solo and pre-checkride preflights). I'm sure the result would be students feeling very pressured to go quick, not something that is good. |
#45
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Pilot Suicides
Crash Lander schrieb:
If a student is going for a flight, with the instructor, and the student is expected to pre-flight the a/c before the instructor gets there, whjat happens if there is an incident, and it turns out to be due to something The student, the instructor, the FBO, the airport manager and the airplane manufactorer will get sued. |
#46
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Pilot Suicides
In article ,
Stefan wrote: If a student is going for a flight, with the instructor, and the student is expected to pre-flight the a/c before the instructor gets there, whjat happens if there is an incident, and it turns out to be due to something The student, the instructor, the FBO, the airport manager and the airplane manufactorer will get sued. Only people/estates with assets will get sued. -- Bob Noel (gave up looking for a particular sig the lawyer will) |
#47
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Pilot Suicides
Crash Lander wrote:
"Jose" wrote in message ... Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a brief pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has already done one or not? Yes. But that doesn't mean that the student needs to be supervised while he does his own preflight. Jose How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway? Crash Lander Becasue an instructor is capable of doing a preflight faster than a student. |
#48
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Pilot Suicides
On 3/7/2007 11:17:57 PM, "Crash Lander" wrote:
How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway? Instructor is going to check the "kill-me" items like fuel and oil quantity, elevator and aileron bolts, etc... -- Peter |
#49
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Pilot Suicides
"C J Campbell" wrote in message e.com... Student pilot Eric Johnson kills himself and his eight-year-old daughter by slamming a plane into his former mother-in-law's house. The Indiana Star notes that as a student pilot he was not allowed to carry passengers... Apparently he practiced a few touch and goes before killing himself. This seems to be getting to be a regular deal. Embry-Riddle instructors killing themselves on the runway, other divorced pilots deliberately crashing into houses, people jumping out of airplanes on final and landing on power lines so that their severed torsos splat a few feet away from small children. Ah yes. Suicide is such a beautiful, noble thing, according to some people. This is a trend I would really like to see stop. A trend that has been running for 50,000 years.... |
#50
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Pilot Suicides
"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message .. . "Jay Beckman" writes: Step One: Eliminate all personal relationships where anyone could ever have the possibility of getting their heart broken... Step Two: change the rules so a pilot can seek professional help for depression without fear of instantly losing their medical. Yes, being a pilot, even an amatur, is more important than your life, or that of your child... |
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