F-14 vs. F-15 accel.

On 16 Dec 2004 14:02:18 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote:

Tony- how
did it perform a-a against the Eagle in BFM? I've heard some sources say
the Eagle is nigh-invincible in the high speed dogfight (even compared to
the Viper), while other sources (Tomcat drivers) tell me that a -14A is a
good match, while a -14B/D is just cruel to the Eagle driver. Any comments?
BRBR


I say-Since the F-15 had a hard wing, no manuvering devices, high altitude and
high speed, it was very good but if you got it lower and slower, in the 10,000
feet arena and 200 or so kts, you could beat it up pretty good.

The big problem with the F-14 was aft wing sweep at high altitudes, even at
slowish speeds..which made it very piggy.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

I've had the opportunity to fight (briefly before being morted) an
F-14A in a Phantom--low-level ingress against CV America in the Med.
Watched him run the intercept, commented to the GIB that he was
definitely going to overshoot BIG TIME, then said "aww ****" as the
wings came out and he did the bat-turn.

Also got a number of chances to fly against F-15A models in the AT-38.
No chance at all 1-v-1, but could do a good job against low-experience
Eagle drivers in 2-v-2, particularly with a good Loose Deuce
knowledgeable wingman. 1-v-1, however, it made no difference whether
the setup was dead-6 ahead or dead-6 astern, shoulder to shoulder same
or opposite direction, the Eagle simply rolled into shooting position
effortlessly.

But, that is unresponsive to the question. While running USAF
exercises from USAFE Hq in the early '80s I set up a lot of
USN/USAF/NATO dissimilar air-to-air exercises.

Typically the debrief between F-14A and F-15A showed the Eagles
prevailing WVR (in those days it was guns/Lima/AIM-7F) and the Turkeys
claiming it made no difference because the Eagle was morted pre-merge
with the -54.

The Eagle did very well below 10,000 feet. That big wing and those
virtually stall-free engines made it almost impossible to ham-fist the
airplane out of energy.

But, you throw in the "200 or so knots" and there is no doubt of two
things:

1.) the Tom would do very well in that regime, and
2.) no fighter pilot of the period should ever by flying combat at
that speed!

When I had the chance to ride along in an F-4 off of Forrestal, my
impression was that the Navy guys spent most of the flight orbitting
at "max conserve" to fit into the cycle, then they would run some
1-v-1 proficiency engagements with any fuel left before returning to
the boat. These setups started at low speed and immediately
degenerated into some variant of a low-speed rolling scissors. Those
guys were VERY good in that regime.

I told them when I left that if they ever saw me on an exercise in a
brown/green Phantom, that it would be .9 M or faster and I wouldn't be
turning with them.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org