Info boxes when thermalling?

Hello All,

I am interested in what information other pilots feel is most important when thermalling.

Thanks,

Blake 3Y

How fast I am going UP.

1. What's my current average? (Last 1 or 2 turns).

2. What's my average since I started climbing?

When 1 2 then time to leave.

At 15:57 26 May 2015, wrote:
How fast I am going UP.

Keep your eyes out of the cockpit and look for other gliders. Listen to the audio to center. An occasional glance at the average climb and then look out again.

If you have too much displayed, you will have difficulty absorbing it and your climb rate will suffer.

If you using XCSoar I recommend the thermal profile infobox (forgot how it is called). It will help you significantly to adjust your circles to the strongest lift. Works like charm. Just make sure to read the manual on how to interpret it. Very easy to use and does not require switching to thermal profile page since a small info box is sufficient.

Ramy

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 2:35:08 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
Keep your eyes out of the cockpit and look for other gliders. Listen to the audio to center. An occasional glance at the average climb and then look out again.

If you have too much displayed, you will have difficulty absorbing it and your climb rate will suffer.

One famous pilot has said, "If you can think about anything except thermalling
when you're thermalling, you're not thinking about thermalling hard enough!"

Another famous pilot described all the ways to look for traffic when
thermalling, e.g. at odd thousands and thousands plus 500, especially watch
for traffic coming from the East, and from the West at the evens.

Myself, I get (mentally) tired just thinking of all the stuff you have to
think about! As far as what I want to see and hear, I like the color coded
display of the lift (drifted with the wind) that XCSoar provides. After that,
I want to see the 20 second average compared with the thermal average.
The little lift strength vs. altitude graph is nice to check out. As
I get higher I want to see how well I'm doing compared with getting to final
glide, and where my course line is, and what the clouds are doing down
that course line. I want to hear where the lift is best in my circle and
anticipate 1/4 turn ahead of that so I know where to flatten out to better
center the lift. Finally, and most importantly, I want to know about other
traffic and other things in the same thermal (gliders, birds, cornstalks,
small houses, etc!) so I can see where the core of the thermal is.
Especially down low, I can see the wind drift by taking note of ground features
and cloud shadows.

And lastly, if you do see a conflict, match *bank angle* !!! Then push or
pull to avoid the impact. In wingspan we're a lot bigger so it's much
easier to avoid impact if that long aspect doesn't cross.

Matt

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 11:30:07 AM UTC-7, pete purdie wrote:
1. What's my current average? (Last 1 or 2 turns).

2. What's my average since I started climbing?

When 1 2 then time to leave.

At 15:57 26 May 2015, drguyacheso wrote:
How fast I am going UP.


I think of it in terms of the decisions I need to make and info needed to make them.

Recentering:
Current instantaneous rate of climb versus climb rate around the circle (SeeYou mobile depicts this pretty well now - Winpilot used to be the best)

Keep climbing versus leave the thermal:
Average climb rate versus thermal average and ~30 minute average. First one should be greater than the last one unless I'm making a save in which case I'm looking at the first versus the second one. Also AGL altitude versus estimated distance to next good climb based on average glide distance, thermal strength variation for the past 30 minutes, adjusted for how conditions look ahead. Here I'm trying to statistically estimate the probability of having to take a sub-standard climb versus sticking with the current one.

Keep circling versus climb straight ahead:
Approaching cloud base you need altitude to cloud base (or top of lift if there are no clouds), distance to the edge of the clouds (which could be quite long if there is streeting) and some estimate of how broadly the lift is distributed and how concentrated the strong cores are. You won't get much of that from an info box, but it is an important part of tactics if you are trying to maximize XC speed.

Keep climbing versus head out on final glide:
Last circle climb rate versus 30 minute average and current altitude versus altitude required to reach minimum Mc for final glide margin - which may be higher than the 30' average climb rate if the day is dying. Adding in expectations for climbs ahead including adjustments for bad tries and centering time. Adding a little climb at a sub-optimal climb rate in a thermal you've already centered to get up to a comfortable final glide with a buffer probably beats trying to make it up to final glide altitude with a few turns here and there on final glide. This decision varies based on distance remaining and altitude where you achieve final glide - further out and higher up means you are more willing to head out below full final glide. Most of that information won't come directly off an info box either.

Andy - 9B

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 9:35:06 AM UTC-6, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello All,

I am interested in what information other pilots feel is most important when thermalling.

Thanks,

Blake 3Y

Blake has just heard this but I wonder what others think. I have been stuck, plateaued for years by fear of getting low (old hang glider pilot) and landing out (hanggliders were easy, only need 100 feet of run out).
So I discovered when my flight computer died in flight that I flew much faster, further, and had less anxiety! I was just looking where I wanted to go and using "instincts" On May 3, 2015 I flew a 500 pt, 5 hour OLC flight at El tiro without ever looking at a flight computer!
On another point, I have observed myself thermalling on more and more occassions without looking at the vario and while distracted by something else and noted that I go into an unconcious "auto-pilot-thermal mode" in which I return to awareness of the vario, the glider, and myself and find that several minutes and thousands of feet of climbing occurred at a usually higher climb rate than before I went into Autopilotthermal mode?
Am I crazy? Don't ask Blake! LOL
P.S. I must encourage, say that this is one of the few threads I have enjoyed, due to pilots discussing their personal thinking processes and decision making processes. More is appreciated, and especially a short synopis on your OLC flight postings in the comments box. The more the better. Not a description per se but an analysis of what was really key to success or failure of that flight.
Thanks to all, I learn so much. Craig McMillan, Zuni II, ZB

On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 11:28:10 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 9:35:06 AM UTC-6, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello All,

I am interested in what information other pilots feel is most important when thermalling.

Thanks,

Blake 3Y

Blake has just heard this but I wonder what others think. I have been stuck, plateaued for years by fear of getting low (old hang glider pilot) and landing out (hanggliders were easy, only need 100 feet of run out).
So I discovered when my flight computer died in flight that I flew much faster, further, and had less anxiety! I was just looking where I wanted to go and using "instincts" On May 3, 2015 I flew a 500 pt, 5 hour OLC flight at El tiro without ever looking at a flight computer!
On another point, I have observed myself thermalling on more and more occassions without looking at the vario and while distracted by something else and noted that I go into an unconcious "auto-pilot-thermal mode" in which I return to awareness of the vario, the glider, and myself and find that several minutes and thousands of feet of climbing occurred at a usually higher climb rate than before I went into Autopilotthermal mode?
Am I crazy? Don't ask Blake! LOL
P.S. I must encourage, say that this is one of the few threads I have enjoyed, due to pilots discussing their personal thinking processes and decision making processes. More is appreciated, and especially a short synopis on your OLC flight postings in the comments box. The more the better. Not a description per se but an analysis of what was really key to success or failure of that flight.
Thanks to all, I learn so much. Craig McMillan, Zuni II, ZB

It is kind of nice when all the electrics quit and you can just enjoy a quiet flight. Feeling the glider(what Craig calls "autopilot") is a skill that can't be replaced by a computer. Fly every day for a week or so and see how much less you rely on the vario.
The best these boxes are likely to do is tell where the thermal was on the last turn, possibly with some forward extrapolation. I want to know where it will be on the next turn.
FWIW

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 8:35:06 AM UTC-7, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Hello All,

I am interested in what information other pilots feel is most important when thermalling.

Thanks,

Blake 3Y

The old Winpilot had, and continues to have to this day, the best thermaling display. It switches to that display when you want it, switches back when you don't, automatically. Displays a scrolling graph of average climb with lines representing both the Mc setting and average climb of the day as reference. It depicts the climb around the circle as a tilted, rotating 3D cylindrical graph, at a glance you get a complete picture of the thermal. It inserts a correction vector on the graph indicating which direction, and how much to correct. It is quite accurate even in very trashy conditions. It also animates the Flarm targets around the cylinder (which shows their relative position and altitude) for excellent situational awareness of traffic in the thermal. Nothing in SYM, XCSoar, iGlide, or (sadly) the new iOS Winpilot even comes close.