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US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 10th 14, 06:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Taylor
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

After the day at Moriarty earlier this year and Nephi yesterday for the 15M/Std Combined class the rules for how a day is devalued needs to be addressed. I understand why the rule was modified a few years ago so that if pilots just didn't fly it would not devalue the day, but the criteria of what makes a valid attempt is now too high.

We had most of the class yesterday not able to get up and make a start. It was not from trying as some pilots took up to three tows. We had a thunderstorm come just north of the field and had to elephant walk the class to the other end. We had several pilots including 7V and GW land out trying to get to better air prior to starting so they were considered not creditable attempts. How much more creditable do you have to be than willing to land out to attempt the task?


Why is this important? Because it makes the contest score subject to random luck rather than showing skill. If we want to attract more pilots to racing we need to ensure that they feel like they can have a fair opportunity to race.

Yesterday should have been devalued to almost nothing or have no score because too few pilots had an opportunity to compete.

Please send a note to one of the SSA Rules Committee Members to ensure that this gets put on their list of things to address this year.

Tim (TT)




  #2  
Old August 10th 14, 09:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

Granted devaluation is a mess, but this situation does not require a rules change. If the whole start zone has no lift, if many pilots cannot stay up, then the task should not be opened. If the task is opened anyway, the CD should cancel the task when it becomes clear that an unfair situation developed. If the CD does not cancel the task, pilots may protest. There is precedent from Parowan, when pilots at the end of the grid had no chance to start, and the protest was upheld.

11.1.3 A valid competition day is a day on which every regular entrant is given a fair opportunity to compete,...

10.8.1.2 After the announcement of task opening time, the CD should consult with the task advisors as to whether the selected task is fair and safe.

3.1.3.1 ... The CD ...is responsible to the SSA for insuring compliance with these rules and fair competition.

(also search about 5 other instances of "fair" in the rules)

You know the process, put in a protest ASAP.

John Cochrane
  #3  
Old August 10th 14, 10:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Taylor
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 2:01:55 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
Granted devaluation is a mess, but this situation does not require a rules change. If the whole start zone has no lift, if many pilots cannot stay up, then the task should not be opened. If the task is opened anyway, the CD should cancel the task when it becomes clear that an unfair situation developed. If the CD does not cancel the task, pilots may protest. There is precedent from Parowan, when pilots at the end of the grid had no chance to start, and the protest was upheld.



11.1.3 A valid competition day is a day on which every regular entrant is given a fair opportunity to compete,...



10.8.1.2 After the announcement of task opening time, the CD should consult with the task advisors as to whether the selected task is fair and safe.



3.1.3.1 ... The CD ...is responsible to the SSA for insuring compliance with these rules and fair competition.



(also search about 5 other instances of "fair" in the rules)



You know the process, put in a protest ASAP.



John Cochrane


John,

I agree that a protest could be filed at this point, but I still think the rules need to be changed so that not all the responsibility is on the CD during a contest. With start calls no longer required at most contest the CD does not always know how many are on course or not until long after the gate is open. There were several that landed out only a few miles away but the CD did not know if they had started or not.

We also need some hard rules in the scoring for percentages that attempt, etc. that automatically devalue a day until it is zero if too great of a percentage of pilots can't attempt the task. I realize the program should work that way but right now if they don't make a minimum distance they are treated as if they did not try. So if only one or a few get away they get 1000 points rather than a few or none. The definition of a credible attempt may need to be changed to something less restrictive like those that turned in a flight log for the day.

I was one of the few that was not affected by the result but and I have friends on both sides that benefited and were hurt by the last day. Would be nice if we had hard rules so it felt fair to all and they didn't feel like someone had to rule for one group or the other.

Tim
  #4  
Old August 11th 14, 12:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

I agree with Tim. If we are going to endure the complication of having a devaluation scheme in the rules, then most certainly it should have kicked in for yesterday. For myself, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole devaluation concept thrown out in the interest of simplification. It seems to be impossible to get to a devaluation scheme that works right.

As the last person on the grid, I'm pretty sure I launched into impossible conditions. As Tim said, I glided away from the storm to no avail and had to put down in a farm field 8 miles south of Nephi. I don't give up easily.. That said I'm not personally inclined to file a protest since it doesn't actually make any difference to me - I'd already eaten thunderstorm humble pie on the two preceding days so I was out of the running. And for the record, Ron did a really outstanding job as CD for this contest even if there might have been a small mistake in opening the task for 15m handicapped class on the last day. It was really a great contest and very well run.

To share a certain beauty of the occasion it was this: As I had picked what I thought to be the best of dozens of possible fields in the area, I was flopping hopelessly in bits of turbulence at low altitude about a half mile downwind from that chosen field ready to make each turn my last of the contest. To my surprise, I sighted 7V a little west at the same low altitude flopping just like me. We both gave up at exactly the same altitude and glided into that particular farm field for simultaneous landings.
  #5  
Old August 11th 14, 12:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

Was there the recommended consultation about a "fair and safe" start with the task advisers? Did anyone pipe up on the radio and say "it is impossible to stay up anywhere near the start cylider, I think starting the task right now would be very unfair?"

John Cochrane
  #6  
Old August 11th 14, 12:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day


PS:
It would be most helpful to have a suggestion of exactly what formula you would like put in place for a situation like this. Include pre-start landouts in the definition of "contestant?," as if they had landed out after starting?
John Cochrane
  #7  
Old August 11th 14, 01:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:40:38 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
Was there the recommended consultation about a "fair and safe" start with the task advisers? Did anyone pipe up on the radio and say "it is impossible to stay up anywhere near the start cylider, I think starting the task right now would be very unfair?"



John Cochrane


I'm not sure whether advisors were consulted. I know that I was consulted twice I presume because I was the last designated launcher. On one occasion I reported to the CD that I was gliding with no lift found; and on the other occasion, if I remember correctly, I advised that I was in one knot at 1500 AGL. Immediately after that report, the CD confirmed that the task would open in 5 minutes. I was surprised at that. Before I launched there had already been numerous relights in the class.

And I'll say again: I'm not whining about any of this. Ron did a great job with lots of quick decisions to be made yesterday. The culprit was the damn thunderstorm outflow.
  #8  
Old August 11th 14, 02:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:07:45 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:40:38 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:

Was there the recommended consultation about a "fair and safe" start with the task advisers? Did anyone pipe up on the radio and say "it is impossible to stay up anywhere near the start cylider, I think starting the task right now would be very unfair?"








John Cochrane




I'm not sure whether advisors were consulted. I know that I was consulted twice I presume because I was the last designated launcher. On one occasion I reported to the CD that I was gliding with no lift found; and on the other occasion, if I remember correctly, I advised that I was in one knot at 1500 AGL. Immediately after that report, the CD confirmed that the task would open in 5 minutes. I was surprised at that. Before I launched there had already been numerous relights in the class.



And I'll say again: I'm not whining about any of this. Ron did a great job with lots of quick decisions to be made yesterday. The culprit was the damn thunderstorm outflow.


The use of the "fair and safe" criteria to help determine if a task should be open is well known and proven, though not universally applied for some reason.
It sounds like Ron happened to get this one wrong, as have a few CD's over the years. It occasionally happens.
There is a lot right about the current devaluation method, but it can't deal with a rare really bad call.
Also as BB noted there are remedies.
I am NOT throwing rocks at Ron and hope he realizes this.
We should not throw out proven rules because of a rare glitch.
Also remember that sometimes "stuff" happens.

UH
  #9  
Old August 11th 14, 03:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

And also, a "protest" need not imply any criticism or disrespect for the CD.. In fact, sometimes CDs welcome them. In a case like this, where after the fact it becomes clear that the start may not have been fair, and knowing that in real time would have been very hard, you can do the CD a favor by filing a protest. A CD who after the fact said "you know, that wasn't fair, I'm throwing out the day" would really be asking for trouble. But if a pilot puts in a protest it's much easier for the CD

John Cochrane
  #10  
Old August 11th 14, 03:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Leonard
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Default US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:40:38 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
Was there the recommended consultation about a "fair and safe" start with the task advisers? Did anyone pipe up on the radio and say "it is impossible to stay up anywhere near the start cylider, I think starting the task right now would be very unfair?"



John Cochrane


The adviser was on the ground waiting for a relight. The other class task advisers were long gone on course where the weather was fine. A few pilots were staying up, even climbing very slowly, drifting away with the 20+ kt wind.

May be a rare glitch. But it happened in both Region 9 contests this year with two different CDs.

Tough day.
 




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