MoGas Long Term Test: 5000 gallons and counting...

("nrp" wrote)
The Governor of MN just signed us up for 20% alcohol over the next few
years. Soon we'll be able to drink the stuff......


Yup. In Minnesota we've been at 10% ethanol blend for many years. 20% is now
heading down the pipe, into our tanks. I've rebuilt a few lawn mower carbs
because of that darn ethanol.

http://www.msra.com/NonOxygenatedFue...st08.16.04.pdf
Non-Oxygenated (Ethanol-Free) fuel availability in MN

Minnesota Street Rod Association's list
http://www.msra.com/

3 gas stations in St. Paul, MN (300,000 pop.)
3 gas stations in Minneapolis, MN (400,000 pop.)
About 50 gas stations throughout the Twin Cities Metro Area (3.5 million
people)

ALL of the other stations are what we call "outstate." (1 million people)

I was down in Iowa last week. There, stations carry both good gas and the
ethanol junk - your choice. In Minnesota, in the Twin Cities anyway, 95% of
all gas stations sell ONLY the 10% (soon to be 20%) ethanol blend.

North Dakota has consumer choice at the pump - like Iowa. In years of
driving to Minot, ND (510 miles one way) we've noticed at least 10%
improvement in gas mileage with good gas (non-oxygenated) vs. our usual Twin
Cities 10% ethanol blend. I think the mileage improvement has been closer to
15%!! ...which is 40-60 miles every 400.


Montblack

"Dave Stadt" writes:

You should be able to find airports that carry mogas that meets the STC
requirements.

Yes, but none in California. Plus, the gas in CA leaves the refineries
already containing alcohol, so the ideas about using gas meant for farm
equipment, etc., are non starters.

Grumble.

-jav

"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
"Dave Stadt" writes:

You should be able to find airports that carry mogas that meets the STC
requirements.

Yes, but none in California. Plus, the gas in CA leaves the refineries
already containing alcohol, so the ideas about using gas meant for farm
equipment, etc., are non starters.

Grumble.

-jav

That sucks.

nrp wrote:
The Governor of MN just signed us up for 20% alcohol over the next few
years. Soon we'll be able to drink the stuff......

There is a range and max power output penalty for use of alcohol since
it has only about half the energy density of pure hydrocarbon fuel.


It's worse than that, nrp.

Alcohol is hygroscopic. It's going to suck all the water out of the air
that it can, basically destroying that tightly controlled combustion
even there in the cylinder. Someone needs to tell the politicians
pushing the farms subsidies that "wet wood don't burn good"

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
"Dave Stadt" writes:

You should be able to find airports that carry mogas that meets the
STC
requirements.

Yes, but none in California. Plus, the gas in CA leaves the refineries
already containing alcohol, so the ideas about using gas meant for farm
equipment, etc., are non starters.

Grumble.

-jav

That sucks.

So move!

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
"Dave Stadt" writes:

You should be able to find airports that carry mogas that meets the
STC
requirements.

Yes, but none in California. Plus, the gas in CA leaves the refineries
already containing alcohol, so the ideas about using gas meant for
farm
equipment, etc., are non starters.

Grumble.

-jav

That sucks.

So move!

Why should I move? I can get alcohol free mogas. I taxi up and they fill
my tanks. Price is only a couple of cents higher than the local filling
stations.

In rec.aviation.owning nrp wrote:
: There is a range and max power output penalty for use of alcohol since
: it has only about half the energy density of pure hydrocarbon fuel.

Actually, it's about 10% less than that of gasoline IIRC. For automotive
uses, the compression ratio of the engine can be increased to get some of that back,
since the alcohol has a higher octane rating.

-Cory
--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

: It might be nice to have EAA and/or Petersen do the same seal test with 1%
: gasahol, 2% gasahol and so on over a short, moderate, and long time to see
: the exact problems facing us. Whether we like it or not, gasahol is with us
: to stay, at least in California.

From what I've read, it's more than just seals in the fuel system. The
alcohol can attack aluminum fuel tanks, IIRC.

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:

From what I've read, it's more than just seals in the fuel system. The
alcohol can attack aluminum fuel tanks, IIRC.

Anybody had mogas issues with fiberglass wing tanks?

From what I've read, it's more than just seals in the fuel system. The
alcohol can attack aluminum fuel tanks, IIRC.

Anybody had mogas issues with fiberglass wing tanks?

I've got fiberglass tip tanks.

No problems.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"