Flight Recorder for SSA Badges

On Nov 19, 4:49*pm, Carl6703 wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:38*am, Tony wrote:



Getting a Badge Candidate set up with barograph is a task no one seems
eager to undertake. *Then there are the periodic calibrations required
and the interpretation of the trace. *The width of the line seems
important some times. *Does anyone know if the LXNAV Nano will require
periodic calibrations for badge use?

Carl

yes all flight recorders require calibration. *Barographs must be
calibrated within the preceding year, Electronic Flight Recorders must
be calibrated within the preceding 2 years. *If a badge leg is claimed
with either type of recorder out of calibration you have one month to
get it calibrated and submit the data.

there is still setup required for the flight recorder. for the
barograph the OO has to fix the paper to the drum, mark the paper, put
the drum in the barograph and probably scribe a baseline and maybe
make a timing mark. *then of course wind the barograph and turn it on..

for the flight recorder they'll have to connect it to their computer,
make sure the pilots name, glider, glider N number and whatever else
is required for the electronic declaration. *Since you'll be using
this for renters this will have to be done basically before each
flight. One benefit us private owners have is we can usually set up
the device when we get it and if we always fly the same glider never
worry about it. *Having the wrong info in the electronic declaration
risks invalidating the flight, unless a paper declaration is made
after the electronic one. *I am paranoid enough about the electronic
flight recorder that I always make a paper declaration just to be
safe.

Tony,

Who provides calibration service for the Nano? *Does it take so much
time that I might need 2 Nanos to cover when one is out for
calibration? *My feeling is that I can get OO's to do the electronic
setup easier than I can get them to do the barograph drill.

Carl

they come calibrated so you'll be good for the first two years and i'm
pretty sure anyone listed as doing "flight recorders" can do the
calibrations. http://www.ssa.org/files/member/CalibrationLabs.pdf

On Nov 19, 1:18*pm, mattm wrote:
On Nov 19, 3:24*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Nov 19, 11:38*am, "PCool" wrote:

The LX specs for talking to an LX device such as Colibri, LX20 and probably
the Nano (which I don't have, anyway), are not public.
I'll try and ask LX if they can make them public. Winpilot and SeeYou can
talk to LX, because they are or were all part of the same company, I was
told.

paolo

"mike" ha scritto nel ...
On Nov 18, 10:01 am, Carl6703 wrote:

I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.

Carl Baxter
Turf Soaring

I have a Nano and it is very easy to use and works well.
Blue Tooth with the Nano works, as does using the serial port with my
HX4700. There is one small hiccup if you are using XCSoar or LK8000.
So far declaring a task using LK8000 or XCSoar has not been possible.
The easy work around is using Navetir ConnectMe, which is a free
program, *to declare tasks via your IPAQ just prior to take off. Of
course task inputs using a home or laptop computer are easy as well.

Mike "0"

That would be nice, I'm not sure why LX (or the various companies spun
off now) do not publicity document their protocols/NMEA extensions
etc.

Failing that a terminal emulator capturing the serial port stream
should also tell you what you need to know.

Naviter has a close relationship to the LX companies but AFAIK
Winpilot does not and never had.

Darryl

Tryhttp://lxnavigation.de/avionics/manuals_de.php
I was able to download a manual containing the definitions of the
LXWPx
sentences. *The details of the upload and download protocols
aren't available that I know of, however.

-- Matt

Matt

I had missed that, you are right the "LX-NMEA" manual on the page you
provided documents the LXWP* NMEA extensions (but not the task
declaration stuff).

Thanks.

Darryl

On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Just a quick note:

If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
over the last 2 years. *They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
contests and a big state-records flight this summer. *Super-simple
operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. *You can
use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
settings or download flight logs. *Runs off of internal batteries or
can be powered externally. *Easily removable from a glider, I mount
mine with velcro. *Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
lightweight to boot. *Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
there.

Good luck!

--Noel

While I originally liked the concept of the EW and bought one when it
came out, I've found mine to be a bit spotty in a couple of areas.
One is the task declaration using the SD Card. There's some care
needed in making sure that the right sequence is followed at power-up
to ensure that the task is loaded from the SD Card (if present).
Combine that with the internal battery which seems to kick in even if
I have disconnected external power, and i've had a few misses that
way. Same thing with shutting the unit off and ensuring I have the
log file on the SD Card at the end of the flight. I seem to get it
wrong about half the time. I should mention that I leave the unit
mounted in the glider and do not use any external device (PDA/Laptop)
to connect. It's there purely as a "dumb" backup to my primary
logger.

I fully admit that I may just be a "better fool" than was envisaged
for an otherwise foolproof device. Wondering if others have had
similar concerns.

Erik Mann
P3

On Nov 20, 8:06*am, Papa3 wrote:
On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:



Just a quick note:

If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
over the last 2 years. *They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
contests and a big state-records flight this summer. *Super-simple
operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. *You can
use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
settings or download flight logs. *Runs off of internal batteries or
can be powered externally. *Easily removable from a glider, I mount
mine with velcro. *Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
lightweight to boot. *Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
there.

Good luck!

--Noel

While I originally liked the concept of the EW and bought one when it
came out, I've found mine to be a bit spotty in a couple of areas.
One is the task declaration using the SD Card. * There's some care
needed in making sure that the right sequence is followed at power-up
to ensure that the task is loaded from the SD Card (if present).
Combine that with the internal battery which seems to kick in even if
I have disconnected external power, and i've had a few misses that
way. *Same thing with shutting the unit off and ensuring I have the
log file on the SD Card at the end of the flight. * I seem to get it
wrong about half the time. *I should mention that I leave the unit
mounted in the glider and do not use any external device (PDA/Laptop)
to connect. *It's there purely as a "dumb" backup to my primary
logger.

I fully admit that I may just be a "better fool" than was envisaged
for an otherwise foolproof device. Wondering if others have had
similar concerns.

Erik Mann
P3

With a backup recorder in the glider, you are probably better off with
a paper declaration.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Nov 20, 8:45*am, T8 wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:06*am, Papa3 wrote:





On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:

Just a quick note:

If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
over the last 2 years. *They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
contests and a big state-records flight this summer. *Super-simple
operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. *You can
use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
settings or download flight logs. *Runs off of internal batteries or
can be powered externally. *Easily removable from a glider, I mount
mine with velcro. *Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
lightweight to boot. *Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
there.

Good luck!

--Noel

While I originally liked the concept of the EW and bought one when it
came out, I've found mine to be a bit spotty in a couple of areas.
One is the task declaration using the SD Card. * There's some care
needed in making sure that the right sequence is followed at power-up
to ensure that the task is loaded from the SD Card (if present).
Combine that with the internal battery which seems to kick in even if
I have disconnected external power, and i've had a few misses that
way. *Same thing with shutting the unit off and ensuring I have the
log file on the SD Card at the end of the flight. * I seem to get it
wrong about half the time. *I should mention that I leave the unit
mounted in the glider and do not use any external device (PDA/Laptop)
to connect. *It's there purely as a "dumb" backup to my primary
logger.

I fully admit that I may just be a "better fool" than was envisaged
for an otherwise foolproof device. Wondering if others have had
similar concerns.

Erik Mann
P3

With a backup recorder in the glider, you are probably better off with
a paper declaration.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Hi Evan,

You know me better than that :-)

While you're right that a paper declaration is sometimes safer, there
are a number of situations where where an electronic declaration is
needed. The problem I have with the EW is largely that I can't
always be sure that there is nothing in the declaration. For
instance, I have a null (blank) declaration on the SD card that should
overwrite what's on the EW. That should work... unless, I somehow
get the boot sequence wrong. Or, I've decided to change the task at
the last minute, and I want to make sure I'm "official" in that both
FRs have the same task. Or, I'm trying for a category of record that
requires an electronic declaration.

I guess my point is just that a reliable declaration process in an FR
is a pretty important thing IMO.

On Nov 20, 11:54*am, Papa3 wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:45*am, T8 wrote:

On Nov 20, 8:06*am, Papa3 wrote:

On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
[snip]
Hi Evan,

You know me better than that *:-)

While you're right that a paper declaration is sometimes safer, there
are a number of situations where where an electronic declaration is
needed. * The problem I have with the EW is largely that I can't
always be sure that there is nothing in the declaration. * For
instance, I have a null (blank) declaration on the SD card that should
overwrite what's on the EW. * That should work... unless, I somehow
get the boot sequence wrong. * Or, I've decided to change the task at
the last minute, and I want to make sure I'm "official" in that both
FRs have the same task. * Or, I'm trying for a category of record that
requires an electronic declaration.

I guess my point is just that a *reliable declaration process in an FR
is a pretty important thing IMO.

While its nice to have electronic declarations that work reliably
almost everybody will be fine with paper and should be making paper
declarations even if they do an electronic one. The only situation
where that does not apply AFAIK is FAI world records. Right? Most of
us should carry paper forms and do a paper declaration (in addition
and after the electronic declaration is made) ...

BTW many of these usability issues are unneeded pain and is
unfortunately outside the IGC specs so vendors get to invent all sorts
of creative usability problems. e.g some of the EW ones mentioned
here, or the Volkslogger re-time stamping a declaration at power-on
(enough of a trap IMNSHO to warn people off the Volkslogger altogether
if you are doing badges/records) or the older Cambridge GPS (e.g.
Model 20) (not the C302) overwriting declarations in IGC files stored
on the recorder. Some of these are things that the vendors should have
just fixed in the products. BTW on the EW I suspect they tried to make
things automatic and the behavior configurable but ended up confusing
some people with the complexity of settings and sometimes unexpected
behavior.

Personally I like just making a declaration from SeeYou Mobile to the
flight recorder (C302 in my case).

Darryl