Where are the armed pilots?

That happened, and it opened the eyes of MOST pilots to the real
possibility of unknown dangers at the airport. Plus, the DHS has
specifically warned us of threats possibly using GA aircraft in
terrorist operations. Accurate, overstated, or otherwise, I see that
as a "hint."

Let's say (for the sake of argument) that there really is some danger of
terrorists using GA aircraft for their nefarious ends. I still fail to see
any real benefit in carrying a loaded firearm to the airport. The chances
of me hurting myself or some innocent party with that firearm are vastly,
enormously greater than the chances of me even encountering a terrorist at
the airport. Even in the extraordinarily unlikely event that I did wind up
at the same airport at the same time as our hypothetical terrorists, how
would I know they were doing anything out of the ordinary? Should I draw
down on anyone who looks like a foreigner? On anyone who is loading
something into a plane? Should I open fire on any cropduster that I see
taxing to to active, especially if the pilot looks like "one of dem
Ay-rabbs"?

The reality is that the terrorist at the GA airport will look more or less
normal. The 19 butt nuggets who killed so many of our countrymen didn't
look in anyway abnormal on the morning of September 11th. Our hypothetical
GA terrorist will do the same thing, and look like just another guy getting
into an airplane.

I make my living as a statistician, so I have a certain fondness for
probabilities. For myself, given the way I live and the way I fly, the
probability of deriving any benefit from a loaded firearm at the airport is
just marginally greater than absolute zero. The chance of that loaded
firearm causing problems for me, due to uncomfortable passengers, nervous
police officers, concerned line personnel, and nosy bystanders is all but
certain over any long period of time. That's not even getting into the very
real risk that said firearm would be used against me, or that an accident
with it would hurt myself or somebody else. Simply stated, the costs
clearly outweigh the very unlikely expected benefit, at least for me.

There may be some people out there who are in a different situation, and who
are much more likely (for some reasons that I can't conceive of) to encouter
a GA terrorist at the airport. For these people, whoever they are, the
benefits may outweigh the costs. But not for me.

... then you're the only handgun owner I've ever heard of who seems to
refuse to be vigilant. Please reconsider.

I am vigilant. I am concerned about my safety, my passengers' safety, and
the safety of my nation. But I simply don't feel that, in my own situation,
being armed while out the airport increases anyone's safety. To the
contrary, I feel that it would make everyone involved marginally (but
significantly) less safe.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

That happened, and it opened the eyes of MOST pilots to the real
possibility of unknown dangers at the airport. Plus, the DHS has
specifically warned us of threats possibly using GA aircraft in
terrorist operations. Accurate, overstated, or otherwise, I see that
as a "hint."

Let's say (for the sake of argument) that there really is some danger of
terrorists using GA aircraft for their nefarious ends. I still fail to see
any real benefit in carrying a loaded firearm to the airport. The chances
of me hurting myself or some innocent party with that firearm are vastly,
enormously greater than the chances of me even encountering a terrorist at
the airport. Even in the extraordinarily unlikely event that I did wind up
at the same airport at the same time as our hypothetical terrorists, how
would I know they were doing anything out of the ordinary? Should I draw
down on anyone who looks like a foreigner? On anyone who is loading
something into a plane? Should I open fire on any cropduster that I see
taxing to to active, especially if the pilot looks like "one of dem
Ay-rabbs"?

The reality is that the terrorist at the GA airport will look more or less
normal. The 19 butt nuggets who killed so many of our countrymen didn't
look in anyway abnormal on the morning of September 11th. Our hypothetical
GA terrorist will do the same thing, and look like just another guy getting
into an airplane.

I make my living as a statistician, so I have a certain fondness for
probabilities. For myself, given the way I live and the way I fly, the
probability of deriving any benefit from a loaded firearm at the airport is
just marginally greater than absolute zero. The chance of that loaded
firearm causing problems for me, due to uncomfortable passengers, nervous
police officers, concerned line personnel, and nosy bystanders is all but
certain over any long period of time. That's not even getting into the very
real risk that said firearm would be used against me, or that an accident
with it would hurt myself or somebody else. Simply stated, the costs
clearly outweigh the very unlikely expected benefit, at least for me.

There may be some people out there who are in a different situation, and who
are much more likely (for some reasons that I can't conceive of) to encouter
a GA terrorist at the airport. For these people, whoever they are, the
benefits may outweigh the costs. But not for me.

... then you're the only handgun owner I've ever heard of who seems to
refuse to be vigilant. Please reconsider.

I am vigilant. I am concerned about my safety, my passengers' safety, and
the safety of my nation. But I simply don't feel that, in my own situation,
being armed while out the airport increases anyone's safety. To the
contrary, I feel that it would make everyone involved marginally (but
significantly) less safe.

For real vigilance-enhancement, carry a cell phone! If you're terribly
paranoid, make it one of those global sat phones so it works even in the
most Dog-forsaken backwoods strip. 911 works most places; the suitably
paranoid can make looking up local emergency numbers part of their
flight planning...

Bonuses include not scaring random linemen or passengers, no chance of
accidentially shooting same, and of course you can bring a cellphone into
nations with actual gun-control laws without trouble. Canada Customs
doesn't like handguns; they won't blink at a cellphone.

Brian - PP-ASEL/Night -

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
. ..

1) Are you licensed for concealed weapon carry and in how many states?
2) Do you carry your gun at the airport (often, rarely, etc.)?


I've heard it said that disclosing that you carry a concealed weapon
means you're not carrying a concealed weapon. Why would anyone want
to disclose that?

Not correct.

Nomen,
I only carry a firearm when required to do so. Then it will be my 7mm
Remington Magnum rifle. It makes a good survival weapon.
Michelle

Nomen Nescio wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting article:
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031...5721-8712r.htm

" On Aug. 26, the TSA gleefully reported that far fewer airline pilots have volunteered for the armed pilot
program than pilot groups estimated might volunteer. Currently, only a few thousand pilots have
volunteered for the program out of about 100,000 that are eligible. The large majority of Americans who
support arming airline pilots might rightfully ask: Where are the volunteers? The answer to the question
is really quite simple."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems that the TSA has been quite successful in keeping ATP's from arming themselves.
And at the same time the Sky Marshall program is switching over from the 9mm round to the
more powerful .357 Sig round because it's better at dropping a terrorist when fired through
a hostage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brings up an interesting question....How many of us Gen.Av. pilots bring our legal concealed
carry weapons up in the air with us?
I don't think I have ever seen a discussion of this issue.
So,
1) Are you licensed for concealed weapon carry and in how many states?
2) Do you carry your gun at the airport (often, rarely, etc.)?
3) What do you do with it when you are flying?
4) Have you ever had a problem with airport personel who may have caught sight of the gun?
5) Have you ever been in a situation where you were thankful that you brought it with you?
6) What do you usually carry?

To break the ice, I'll start........
1) Yes, 35 states. including Vermont (no license required)
2) Small airports.....almost always.....loaded and holstered
Larger airports (served by airlines) sometimes carried, sometimes in flight bag, on rare
occasion I leave it home.
3) Flight bag if carried on belt, wear it if carried in shoulder holster.
4) Don't think anyone ever saw it.
5) Every lonely, dark, airport. Especially when preflighting.
6) Sig Sauer 239, .40 cal., tritium night sights

Anyone else want to weigh in on this subject??






--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

I have to say that I am surprised at the number of people
who feel that they are careful enough to take to the air and
yet don't think they could carry a gun without accidentally
shooting someone.

Again, it's a matter of probabilities. It is very unlikely that I would
accidentally shoot someone. But it is almost infinitely LESS likely that I
will encounter the next Mohammed Atta at a GA airport. Or, for that matter,
that I will encounter anyone who is intent on breaking into my car. The
risk of me having a negative result from being armed at the airport is, at
least in my own life, far greater than the chance that I would do anything
good with a firearm when I am there.

By negative result, I don't just mean shooting someone accidentally. Let's
say that somebody notices that I am armed and calls the cops. In fact,
let's HOPE that somebody notices that I'm armed and calls the cops. That's
certainly what I would do if I saw someone who was carrying a gun on the
flight line. And for the sake of argument, let's say that I have the legal
right to carry in whatever state I'm in at the time. I still am going to
have to deal with an initially very nervous police officer, produce
identification, explain myself, and probably get run through a database
someplace so the cop can verify my story. This is going to take upwards of
45 minutes to an hour to sort out, and I'd rather spend that time flying,
especially if night, weather, or my own physical endurance is closing in.

I simply see more costs than benefits in carrying a loaded firearm past the
fence and onto the flight line. Your mileage may vary, but I can't conceive
on an instance when being my armed at the airport would have had any
benefits at all. But I can recognize any number of instances when there
would have been costs for being so equipped.

As you say, you are armed just about everywhere you go. I don't live my
life that way. I'm not saying that you are wrong for living life the way
you do. Why don't you grant me the same courtesy?

Nomen,
In Canada literally anywhere outside of Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto,
Montreal, and Quebec. In the USA only in Alaska if I remember correctly.
The 9mm Glock stays in the Night stand unless I am heading to the pistol
range.

Cats: Three; one indoor, one indoor/outdoor, one outdoor.

Michelle


Nomen Nescio wrote:

From: Michelle P



Nomen,
I only carry a firearm when required to do so. Then it will be my 7mm
Remington Magnum rifle. It makes a good survival weapon.
Michelle



Under what conditions are you required to carry a 7mm Remington Magnum rifle?
Yea, I'll bet it makes a good survival weapon.
I noticed the mail address...........how many cats?






--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

"Michelle P" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nomen,
I only carry a firearm when required to do so. Then it will be my 7mm
Remington Magnum rifle. It makes a good survival weapon.
Michelle

Hope you don't have to survive by shooting rabbits or squirrels. :~)

Tom,
No, It is usually for bears, Polar bears if necessary, elk, deer. If I
ever had to shoot a rabbit or squirrel I would have to aim and hit the
head. It would be for protection and I would hope not to be stuck out
long enough to have to shoot and eat an animal. I would rather shoot
them with my camera.
Michelle

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
link.net...


Nomen,
I only carry a firearm when required to do so. Then it will be my 7mm
Remington Magnum rifle. It makes a good survival weapon.
Michelle



Hope you don't have to survive by shooting rabbits or squirrels. :~)





--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

Nomen Nescio wrote:


.22, .41 mag or .480 Ruger. Sometimes a shotgun.


What the hell is a .480 Ruger?

Damn near .50 cal, that's what. And with the 2X scope pretty heavy too.

To clarify, I carry a gun everywhere.

What are you so afraid of, Nomen?