Cessna 182 as a Tow Plane?

Our club operates at 1350 ft AMSL on a grass strip in hot Australain weather
( www.ddsc.org.au ). It has a Pawnee and a Cessna 182 as tow planes and a
huge range of gliders from two seater to Nimbus 4DM.

I will take both tugs on most days in my Nimbus 2C, but with a soft strip
and water aboard, the Cessna is not marvelous.

The slow acceleration at the start means more chance to drop a wing. The
need to get the speeds higher before climb out means the height over the
fence is a lot lower.

Once in the air not too much difference to me, but vision in the high wing
Cessna must be a pain and a danger.

I have had a tow behind the Kingaroy Cessna 152 (I think) with an autoengine
and it was spectacular good. Not sure if this is aavilable in the US. In New
Zealand I had a tow by a Pawnee 235 with a four bladded prop which was quick
and quiet (residential areas)

My vote form +30 years and lots of tows is a crop duster type like the
Pawnee with lots of horsepower.

Robert Percy

It would probably be a good idea to contact Caracole Soaring in
California City, CA. They tow with a C-182 year round in the Mojave
Desert. I've never flown with them but so far I haven't heard any
complaints about their tow plane.

Thanks to all who commented on this subject. This will help those who will
make the choice, I hope! I'll have to reevaluate my bias against the C182
but still a C172 4 cyl. Lycoming w/ fixed pitch prop vs. 6 cyl Cont. w/
control pitch prop. (and maybe the addition of oil coolers) seems like a
major factor. But we will be towing kids in a CAP glider to 3K agl which
will probably wind up being light duty.
Jim Newton

"Jim Newton" wrote in message
ink.net...
I would like like comment on whether it is a good idea to use a
Continental
powered C182 as a tow ship that would be mainly used to tow the Schweizer
2-33 at sea level airports. I content that the tow speed would not be
comfortable for a 2-33 and that overheating of the continental engine
would
be a problem in the summer. I'd like to convince those who might make the
decision to only use our Cessna 172, 180hp Lycoming conversion. I have no
experience with a 182 as a tug.
Jim

Thank you for your kind words Alex. Come fly with us.

Jim:
We ran a 182 and Pawnee 235 side by side for four years.
When we only needed one tug, the Pawnee went away and the 182 stayed.

The 182 tows from a 2500 msl field and our summer temps of 95 - 100 F
and gives us ~500 fpm climb rates with a dual ASK 21, Blaniks, wet
glass, and tows at typically 60-65 knots. Wet glass whines for 70,
Blaniks like 55 - 60kts.

The 182 trains tow pilots, gives occasional tow pilot currency checks,
hauls friends to lunch occasionally when not towing. Great utility.
Ours is a C model, manual flaps, tall gear, swept tail, no rear
window, manual cowl flaps.

She was very tired when she came to us, and got a factory reman soon
thereafter, which ran 2100 hours on first go. One valve needed
relapping and no cylinder work after break in. Smart pilots,
incremental power reductions, closed cowl flap slipping descents, no
problems. Keep engine baffling in good shape, and one big oil cooler,
we've no problems. No leaning unless above 5500 msl on wave tows, and
get 15 gph burn. Sharp pilots, 3k local tows in about 15 minute
turnarounds.
We added a 3-bladed Hartzell a few years ago, no change in speed or
climb or fuel, but it is hugely quieter and got a couple inches more
clearance.

Things to avoid: High speed flap deployment, flat landings, hard
landings, rough field retrieves (little prop clearance).

Cessna delights: High wing ramp shade, cheaper insurance, faster XC
retrieves, faster returns from long wave tows, multiplace utility, no
fabric replacement.

In comparison to Pawnee costs, do you include thinking about recover?
You should. And the spar attach AD was a big ticket too.

Over all, we love our girl. She's worked a steady 14 years here.

Cindy B
Caracole Soaring
www.caracolesoaring.com


"Jim Newton" wrote in message link.net...
Thanks to all who commented on this subject. This will help those who will
make the choice, I hope! I'll have to reevaluate my bias against the C182
but still a C172 4 cyl. Lycoming w/ fixed pitch prop vs. 6 cyl Cont. w/
control pitch prop. (and maybe the addition of oil coolers) seems like a
major factor. But we will be towing kids in a CAP glider to 3K agl which
will probably wind up being light duty.
Jim Newton

"Jim Newton" wrote in message
ink.net...
I would like like comment on whether it is a good idea to use a
Continental
powered C182 as a tow ship that would be mainly used to tow the Schweizer
2-33 at sea level airports. I content that the tow speed would not be
comfortable for a 2-33 and that overheating of the continental engine
would
be a problem in the summer. I'd like to convince those who might make the
decision to only use our Cessna 172, 180hp Lycoming conversion. I have no
experience with a 182 as a tug.
Jim

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:01:02 +1000, "robert"
wrote:


I have had a tow behind the Kingaroy Cessna 152 (I think) with an autoengine
and it was spectacular good. Not sure if this is aavilable in the US.

That airplane is a C150 E of 1964 vintage (omnivision, straight
tail)with a Lycoming O-360 and a C172 nose leg. I've watched while it
towed a 15 m glider alongside a Pawnee 235 towing same and it beats
the Pawnee.

OTOH I know of one club who still have the heavy fiberglass hoppers in
their dedicated Pawnee towplanes. Ther is a word for these people.

Mike Borgelt

You have had your towplane 14years ,she is a baby ,our club has had
our Pawnee 40 years.
"Caracole" wrote in message
om...
Thank you for your kind words Alex. Come fly with us.

Jim:
We ran a 182 and Pawnee 235 side by side for four years.
When we only needed one tug, the Pawnee went away and the 182 stayed.

The 182 tows from a 2500 msl field and our summer temps of 95 - 100 F
and gives us ~500 fpm climb rates with a dual ASK 21, Blaniks, wet
glass, and tows at typically 60-65 knots. Wet glass whines for 70,
Blaniks like 55 - 60kts.

The 182 trains tow pilots, gives occasional tow pilot currency checks,
hauls friends to lunch occasionally when not towing. Great utility.
Ours is a C model, manual flaps, tall gear, swept tail, no rear
window, manual cowl flaps.

She was very tired when she came to us, and got a factory reman soon
thereafter, which ran 2100 hours on first go. One valve needed
relapping and no cylinder work after break in. Smart pilots,
incremental power reductions, closed cowl flap slipping descents, no
problems. Keep engine baffling in good shape, and one big oil cooler,
we've no problems. No leaning unless above 5500 msl on wave tows, and
get 15 gph burn. Sharp pilots, 3k local tows in about 15 minute
turnarounds.
We added a 3-bladed Hartzell a few years ago, no change in speed or
climb or fuel, but it is hugely quieter and got a couple inches more
clearance.

Things to avoid: High speed flap deployment, flat landings, hard
landings, rough field retrieves (little prop clearance).

Cessna delights: High wing ramp shade, cheaper insurance, faster XC
retrieves, faster returns from long wave tows, multiplace utility, no
fabric replacement.

In comparison to Pawnee costs, do you include thinking about recover?
You should. And the spar attach AD was a big ticket too.

Over all, we love our girl. She's worked a steady 14 years here.

Cindy B
Caracole Soaring
www.caracolesoaring.com


"Jim Newton" wrote in message
link.net...
Thanks to all who commented on this subject. This will help those who
will
make the choice, I hope! I'll have to reevaluate my bias against the
C182
but still a C172 4 cyl. Lycoming w/ fixed pitch prop vs. 6 cyl Cont. w/
control pitch prop. (and maybe the addition of oil coolers) seems like
a
major factor. But we will be towing kids in a CAP glider to 3K agl
which
will probably wind up being light duty.
Jim Newton

"Jim Newton" wrote in message
ink.net...
I would like like comment on whether it is a good idea to use a
Continental
powered C182 as a tow ship that would be mainly used to tow the
Schweizer
2-33 at sea level airports. I content that the tow speed would not be
comfortable for a 2-33 and that overheating of the continental engine
would
be a problem in the summer. I'd like to convince those who might make
the
decision to only use our Cessna 172, 180hp Lycoming conversion. I
have no
experience with a 182 as a tug.
Jim

"Caracole" wrote in message
. com...
Thank you for your kind words Alex. Come fly with us.

Cindy B

Cindy,

Do you fly your 182 with the wheel pants on or off?
Did you remove the back seat or leave it in?
If you did remove the rear seat, did you put
weights anywhere for CG?

I'm asking because they do have the seat and pants off for the
206 jump plane at Marina, and I'm wondering if this is common
for towplanes too...

Cindy climbs into the cockpit with her pants on. I think she takes them off
after that, though. It's hot as hell sometimes at Cal City so everyone does
it. Most of us fly buck naked usually but use a lot of sunscreen.


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:4018216d$1@darkstar...
"Caracole" wrote in message
. com...
Thank you for your kind words Alex. Come fly with us.

Cindy B

Cindy,

Do you fly your 182 with the wheel pants on or off?
Did you remove the back seat or leave it in?
If you did remove the rear seat, did you put
weights anywhere for CG?

I'm asking because they do have the seat and pants off for the
206 jump plane at Marina, and I'm wondering if this is common
for towplanes too...

Ok, but what I wanna know Mr. Dzpencer, is do she put
her wheel pants on one leg at a time?


At 21:36 28 January 2004, John Shelton wrote:
Cindy climbs into the cockpit with her pants on. I
think she takes them off
after that, though. It's hot as hell sometimes at Cal
City so everyone does
it. Most of us fly buck naked usually but use a lot
of sunscreen.


'Mark James Boyd' wrote in message
news:4018216d$1@darkstar...
'Caracole' wrote in message
. com...
Thank you for your kind words Alex. Come fly with
us.

Cindy B

Cindy,

Do you fly your 182 with the wheel pants on or off?
Did you remove the back seat or leave it in?
If you did remove the rear seat, did you put
weights anywhere for CG?

I'm asking because they do have the seat and pants
off for the
206 jump plane at Marina, and I'm wondering if this
is common
for towplanes too...

Actually all those Brickners stand on the bed, hold them out and jump into
them both feet at once. Even her mom does. I think it comes from having a
cold floor when they were kids.


"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
Ok, but what I wanna know Mr. Dzpencer, is do she put
her wheel pants on one leg at a time?


At 21:36 28 January 2004, John Shelton wrote:
Cindy climbs into the cockpit with her pants on. I
think she takes them off
after that, though. It's hot as hell sometimes at Cal
City so everyone does
it. Most of us fly buck naked usually but use a lot
of sunscreen.


'Mark James Boyd' wrote in message
news:4018216d$1@darkstar...
'Caracole' wrote in message
. com...
Thank you for your kind words Alex. Come fly with
us.

Cindy B

Cindy,

Do you fly your 182 with the wheel pants on or off?
Did you remove the back seat or leave it in?
If you did remove the rear seat, did you put
weights anywhere for CG?

I'm asking because they do have the seat and pants
off for the
206 jump plane at Marina, and I'm wondering if this
is common
for towplanes too...