Capt. Al Haynes sorta OT.

Jay Honeck wrote:
The alternative to the retirement plans that kill the tax payers is
pant-loads of uneducated youth.


This is a bit of a stretch. There is "retirement", and then there is

My sister, age 54, just retired after teaching 32 years in the same Middle
School. (Actually in the same ROOM, for all those years!)

While this *does* qualify for sainthood, I'm still not sure why she was
eligible for full retirement at at 52 -- fully 13 years before the rest of
society. The taxpayers in Michigan are certainly in no position to pay
this, and should not have to -- especially nowadays, with life expectancy
for women climbing to record levels.

Military personnel are eligible for retirement with as little as 20
years of service.


Matt

Richard Hertz wrote:
I am changing careers. After working for 12 years in the computer science
industry I am going to "semi-retire" to teach math and computer science.
Many family members and acquaintances teach and when I compare their
lifestyle and working hours and stress to mine I conclude that the pay cut
is worth the reduced hours and the retirement benefits are almost criminal.
(in my opinion)

Let us know what you think after completing your first year of teaching.
Good luck! I've often thought of this as well, but I know several
teachers very well and low stress isn't in their job description.


Matt

Dan Luke wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

My sister, age 54, just retired after teaching 32 years...


While this *does* qualify for sainthood, I'm still not sure
why she was eligible for full retirement at at 52 -- fully
13 years before the rest of society.


That would have added up to 84 "points" at Honeywell when last I worked
there (1995) - I think it's still figured that way. One more year (2
points) and she would have qualified for full retirement. Many corporate
retitrement plans are similar.

Yes, I work at a Fortune 500 corporation and we've had two early
retirement packages in the last five years that went down to age 53. 55
is the normal early retirement age, but in the 20 years I've worked
there, the norm has been to have an early retirement incentive package
about every 4 years (there have been 5 in my 20 years, though not
equally spaced in time). These packages typically "bridge" employees
from age 53 upward.


Matt

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Jeffrey Voight" wrote in message
...

Not Matt, but I would point out that a question wasn't asked. A
statement about how the only work 180 days out of the year was posed.
As far as 7 hour days, I can assure you that it's significantly longer.
The 7 hour day is the portion in which the teacher gets to handle
students on a face-to-face basis. The remainder of the day is unbilled
and fully expected.


Not in any school district I've seen. At my daughter's HS, any teacher that
has a "0" hour class (7:00AM start) is gone at 2:00 PM. Most of their drudge
work is handled by TA's (student assistants)

So where do you teach? Since this job is so lucrative, you'd be insane
not to take it up, right? Although, since you can't tell a statement
from a question, you might not have the right stuff to teach...


Matt

Dan Luke wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
My sister, age 54, just retired after teaching 32 years...

While this *does* qualify for sainthood, I'm still not sure
why she was eligible for full retirement at at 52 -- fully
13 years before the rest of society.

That would have added up to 84 "points" at Honeywell when last I worked
there (1995) - I think it's still figured that way. One more year (2
points) and she would have qualified for full retirement. Many corporate
retitrement plans are similar.

My former employer had a similar point system, but they also had a minimum age
for retirement of 55. I think full retirement took 90 points, but you could get
out with a pension with as little as 70. A couple years ago, however, they went
over to a "cash balance pension payout" plan, and there's no such thing as "full
retirement" under that plan.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:ElgJb.730526$Fm2.630760@attbi_s04...
The alternative to the retirement plans that kill the tax payers is
pant-loads of uneducated youth.

This is a bit of a stretch. There is "retirement", and then there is

My sister, age 54, just retired after teaching 32 years in the same Middle
School. (Actually in the same ROOM, for all those years!)

While this *does* qualify for sainthood, I'm still not sure why she was
eligible for full retirement at at 52 -- fully 13 years before the rest of
society. The taxpayers in Michigan are certainly in no position to pay
this, and should not have to -- especially nowadays, with life expectancy
for women climbing to record levels.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Jeffrey Voight" wrote in message
...

Jay is right on with this line of thought. After throwing hundreds of
Billions of dollars at education over the last few years the United
States has slipped from #1 in the industrialized world to somewhere in
the 20's for educating kids.
Look at all test scores going down the tubes, high school grads that
cannot even pass a simple math test. Here in this part of Wyoming they
even have done away with A B C D F as grades. They were afraid to hurt
little Johnnies self asteam. And of coure my absolute favorite is Jay
Leno's weekly bit called Jaywalking. He really lights up when he finds
a teacher to quiz. You know, the ones that cannot answer simple
questions like. Who is the current President?????And this tenure ****
for teachers has got to go. What other occupation has that kind of job
security??? What these new teachers do is
lay low under the radar screen till they get awarded tenure and then
don't give a crap about the kids for their remaining time. All they
want is that retirement check !!!!!!!! Now, back to the original post.
Capt Al did a spectacular job of getting that mess on the ground. We
all cannot forget there were others in that cockpit that need to share
in the glory too. The one poster that siad " United ought to pony up
some cash"is hitting the nail right on the head.

Not Matt, but I would point out that a question wasn't asked. A
statement about how the only work 180 days out of the year was posed.
As far as 7 hour days, I can assure you that it's significantly longer.
The 7 hour day is the portion in which the teacher gets to handle
students on a face-to-face basis. The remainder of the day is unbilled
and fully expected. This is the time that the teacher spends building
lesson plans (or reviewing last year's plan or reviewing somebody else's
plan), grading student papers, and, I assume, trying to rebuild their
immune systems to deal with the petri dish that they visit 180 days out
of the year.

As far as why the top 5% of any particular graduating class don't become
teachers, it's because it isn't very lucrative. It might be extremely
satisfying on a personal level, but it doesn't bring in much money.

Also, just because a person graduated in the bottom 1/4 of one's class
does not mean that they belong in the bottom 1/4 of society. It means
that when measured against their peers (where peers is defined as those
people that graduated at the same time from the same school and same
degree program [which is similar to saying 'arbitrary']), those
individuals had 3/4 of their peers get better grades.

Compared to those who chose not to get an education, even these
'poor-performers' have a significant advantage even though the
uneducated don't have to carry around a sign saying 'graduated in the
bottom 1/4 of my class'.

And, you do realize that the teachers don't get paid for the remainder
of the days that they don't work. Some of them do spread their income
so that the summer doesn't hurt so much, but you can do the same by
banking income and retrieving it on an as-needed basis.

Why would we give them retirement packages? Because if we didn't,
nobody would become a teacher. There would be no incentive at all. Why
would we want teachers? I, for one, want teachers to educate children
because I plan on retiring someday. If I am the only one left with an
education, my retirement isn't going to be very comfortable because I
won't be able to admire young, pert nurses. I won't be able to have
smart architects design nice living quarters. I won't have smart
engineers to build my next vehicle. Teachers enable all these things.

Uneducated youth don't make good
incomes. Uneducated, underpaid youth don't pay taxes. Non-tax-paying
youth mean that *you* get to pay the rest. How much can you afford?

Jeff...

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Richard Hertz wrote:

Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only

7

hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax
payers.

And how much teaching experience do you have? I'm guessing none by your
response.


Why not answer his question, Matthew?

Answer this one, too: Why is it that over 3/4ths of teachers come from
the
bottom quartile of their graduating classes?

Look at all test scores going down the tubes, high school grads that
cannot even pass a simple math test. Here in this part of Wyoming they
even have done away with A B C D F as grades. They were afraid to hurt
little Johnnies self asteam.

As in "I'm a-fixin' to a-build up my self a-steam"?

How'd your chell-specker miss THAT one?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Well said.


wrote in message
...
I think we are missing the real issue here. It's not whether Capt. Haynes
could or should be able to pay for his daughter's treatment. Rather, it
is
that our broken health insurance system has once again failed to meet
reasonable expectations. This sort of catastrophically expensive but
nonetheless essential treatment is in fact exactly why we need health
insurance. But the scenario here is, tragically, all too common. It
wouldn't even make the news if not for Capt. Haynes's (well deserved)
fame.
The victim, insured through his or her employer, gets too sick to work.
Eventually he or she loses insurance coverage and cannot get a new policy
that will cover the pre-existing condition. It's win-win for the
insurance
companies (who help propagate this outrage with massive campaign
contributions to corrupt politicians) and lose-lose for working Americans.

--
-Elliott Drucker

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ElgJb.730526$Fm2.630760@attbi_s04...

While this *does* qualify for sainthood, I'm still not sure why she was
eligible for full retirement at at 52 -- fully 13 years before the rest of
society. The taxpayers in Michigan are certainly in no position to pay
this, and should not have to -- especially nowadays, with life expectancy
for women climbing to record levels.

One of the reasons -- maybe the primary reasons -- states like teachers in
their 50s to retire is that they can be replaced by fresh new teachers just
out of college at starting salaries much less than those the veterans were
getting. It actually saves the states money.

Some folk care

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=112991