Capt. Al Haynes sorta OT.

One of the reasons -- maybe the primary reasons -- states like teachers in
their 50s to retire is that they can be replaced by fresh new teachers
just
out of college at starting salaries much less than those the veterans were
getting. It actually saves the states money.

Hmmm. Not sure I see the math here.

While the state may save, say, half of the older teacher's salary (let's say
my sister was making $45,000 -- so they'll cut it by half in retirement, to
$22.5K) they then have to pay a new teacher what, $25K to start, plus
benefits?

Thus, we've lost a few grand in the mix.

Of course, "retirement pay" comes out of a different bucket of cash in the
state's budget then "teacher's salary", so ON PAPER they LOOK like they
"saved the taxpayers some money"...

More typical gubmint accounting, is my hunch.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Good luck! I've often thought of this as well, but I know several
teachers very well and low stress isn't in their job description.

My sister would laugh at that "low-stress" statement, too! Imagine
"teaching" a room full of adolescent boys and girls? NOT!

But the bottom line is this: I've had ten times the stress in my various
businesses and careers as she's had in teaching (a fact that she freely
admits), and there is no way in hell I'll be able to retire in 9 years.

At least not unless a WHOLE lot more of you guys start flying to Iowa on the
weekends! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...


Jay Honeck wrote:

Of course, "retirement pay" comes out of a different bucket of cash in the
state's budget then "teacher's salary", so ON PAPER they LOOK like they
"saved the taxpayers some money"...

Typically, retirement pay doesn't come out of current taxes at all. The employer
sets a certain amount of money aside every year as a retirement account. ,

Margy pays for her own retirement which gets gratuitously mismanaged for her
by the state and the county. If she expects to get anything, she will be socking
it away in her 403b (the public teacher version of 401k).

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:kiiJb.717212$HS4.5149546@attbi_s01...
Where do you guys get these statistics - I find both very unlikely...

Michael


Thomas Sowell's "Inside American Education" and "Dumbing Us Down" by John
Taylor Gatto

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:fsiJb.42630$xX.147011@attbi_s02...
LOL - ok, I thought we were talking about high school...

"Jeffrey Voight" wrote in message
...
I made mine up. It *is* correct, though. Half of all _______ would
have to graduate in the bottom half of their class.

In medical school...not undergraduate school.


The 3/4's one, I don't know where it came from. I don't find it likely,
either.

Jeff...

Michael 182 wrote:
Where do you guys get these statistics - I find both very unlikely...

Michael

FAA ATC has three legs of retirement. The first is your annuity. I'd
have to go and look for sure but if I retire when I am eligible, which
is after 25 years(I'll be 49), I would get about 37-40% of my base
pay.(Actually a high three year average) If I go until I have to retire
at 56 then I would get about 45%. The second leg is social security.
Even though I would be below the SS age I will get the same amount, my
calculations put it at approx $2500 per month to start. The third is
the government version of a 401K. At a 10% average annual return until
I retire, assuming age 56, it will be worth about $1.5 million. I am
putting in the IRS max at current, which will be $13K for 2004.

Ron Natalie wrote:
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...


Jay Honeck wrote:

Of course, "retirement pay" comes out of a different bucket of cash in the
state's budget then "teacher's salary", so ON PAPER they LOOK like they
"saved the taxpayers some money"...

Typically, retirement pay doesn't come out of current taxes at all. The employer
sets a certain amount of money aside every year as a retirement account. ,


Margy pays for her own retirement which gets gratuitously mismanaged for her
by the state and the county. If she expects to get anything, she will be socking
it away in her 403b (the public teacher version of 401k).

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Richard Hertz wrote:

Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only

7

hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax
payers.

And how much teaching experience do you have? I'm guessing none by your
response.


Why not answer his question, Matthew?

Answer this one, too: Why is it that over 3/4ths of teachers come from
the
bottom quartile of their graduating classes?



Because he didn't ask a question. He made a statement. The only
question in the above is the one I asked.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Richard Hertz wrote:

Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only

7

hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax
payers.

And how much teaching experience do you have? I'm guessing none by your
response.


Why not answer his question, Matthew?

Answer this one, too: Why is it that over 3/4ths of teachers come from
the
bottom quartile of their graduating classes?



Because he didn't ask a question. He made a statement. The only
question in the above is the one I asked.

Excuse me..."answer his point".

First, his response has little do with the original point (retirement
system).

Indeed, the education system is instilling a real propensity for evasion.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:JhpJb.727709$Tr4.1877797@attbi_s03...
One of the reasons -- maybe the primary reasons -- states like teachers
in
their 50s to retire is that they can be replaced by fresh new teachers
just
out of college at starting salaries much less than those the veterans
were
getting. It actually saves the states money.

Hmmm. Not sure I see the math here.

While the state may save, say, half of the older teacher's salary (let's
say
my sister was making $45,000 -- so they'll cut it by half in retirement,
to
$22.5K) they then have to pay a new teacher what, $25K to start, plus
benefits?

Thus, we've lost a few grand in the mix.

Of course, "retirement pay" comes out of a different bucket of cash in the
state's budget then "teacher's salary", so ON PAPER they LOOK like they
"saved the taxpayers some money"...

More typical gubmint accounting, is my hunch.

If anyone thinks Enron's accounting was flakey, take a look at government
accounting. Primarily "cash basis", there is no real accounting for
long-term liabilities, only "estimates".

While Social Security is failing fast, the government retirement system
(which is paid out of current revenues) is looking at unfunded liabilities
of $9 to $14 TRILLION.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Jay Honeck wrote:

Of course, "retirement pay" comes out of a different bucket of cash in
the
state's budget then "teacher's salary", so ON PAPER they LOOK like they
"saved the taxpayers some money"...

Typically, retirement pay doesn't come out of current taxes at all. The
employer
sets a certain amount of money aside every year as a retirement account.
Typically,
this money is invested in stock and bond accounts and will grow at the
rate of
between 5% and 15% a year. Some government and education system pensions
are keyed
to the market even after retirement - my mother's pension payments go up
and down
with the stock market, and she has not tired of complaining about it for
the last
three years.

Government retirement DOES come out of current revenue. They wanted to buy
stocks and bonds, but that would have given government strong control over
corporations. That was Jessie Jackson's idea...to buy up "socially
responsible" companies.



In any case, salaries and benefits for those still working are paid for
out of
tax revenue. This includes payments into the retirement account from which
their
pensions will eventually come. Pension payments for retired people are
not - they
are paid out of withdrawals from the pension funds. In part, they are
pre-paid by
taxes that were paid during their period of employment, but the majority
comes
from interest on the account.

It seems you are using "revenue" and "tax revenue" interchangeably between
private and civil service pension funds. Can you clarify?