An aeroplane that can stand still in air

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:24:26 GMT, Mike Marron wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"John R Weiss" wrote:

What is a "stall turn"?

Pull up into a vertical climb in a light aircraft and you'll
soon find out

Pull up into a vertical climb in the (tailless) type of aircraft
I happen to fly and you'll probably die. Here is a horrific
little video that illustrates exactly what I mean:

http://www.pegasus-usa.com/tech/tumble.mpg

(Play it several times in slow motion and just imagine what
was going through the doomed pilot's mind at the time!)

A "stall turn" to me is a hammerhead stall (we can't perform
those either, without either dying or firing the ballistic chute).
Without a rudder, the closest thing to a hammerhead stall that
I can safely perform in the type of airplane I fly is a wingover.
But since a true wingover is a 90-deg. climbing turn followed
by a 90-deg. descending turn resulting in a 180-deg. change
in direction, technically I perform "wangs" rather than wingovers.
Trikes can't perform true wingovers because bottom rudder
is needed at the top of the climbing turn to keep the aircraft
coordinated.

In steady-state winds aloft, flying stationary (relative to the
ground), or even backwards and sideways is no problem,
however.

Ultralights are generally not considered "aircraft".

Al Minyard

What is a "stall turn"?

Pull up into a vertical climb in a light aircraft and you'll
soon find out


I suspect you are referring to whaT I learned as a "snap turn." Put the plane
(SNJ/T6 in my case) in a steep turn to the left. Then haul back swiftly on
stick. Angle of attack is exceeded, right wing stalls, and plane snaps to the
right. The trick is to recover from the snap before it developes into a nice
spin. Lots of fun when planned on and done correctly. Scares the **** out of
you when happens inadvertantly. Can work starting with a turn to the right,
but harder to do because the SNJ's right wing is fonder of stalls than its left
wing.

This, incidentally, can be done at almost any airspeed. Simply a high speed
stall while in a steep turn.

Quent

Alan Minyard wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Pull up into a vertical climb in the (tailless) type of aircraft
I happen to fly and you'll probably die. Here is a horrific
little video that illustrates exactly what I mean:

http://www.pegasus-usa.com/tech/tumble.mpg

(Play it several times in slow motion and just imagine what
was going through the doomed pilot's mind at the time!)

A "stall turn" to me is a hammerhead stall (we can't perform
those either, without either dying or firing the ballistic chute).
Without a rudder, the closest thing to a hammerhead stall that
I can safely perform in the type of airplane I fly is a wingover.
But since a true wingover is a 90-deg. climbing turn followed
by a 90-deg. descending turn resulting in a 180-deg. change
in direction, technically I perform "wangs" rather than wingovers.
Trikes can't perform true wingovers because bottom rudder
is needed at the top of the climbing turn to keep the aircraft
coordinated.

In steady-state winds aloft, flying stationary (relative to the
ground), or even backwards and sideways is no problem,
however.

Ultralights are generally not considered "aircraft".

Correct. However, anything equipped with 2-seats and weighs more
than 254 pounds, has a fuel capacity exceeding 5 U.S. gallons, is
capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in
level flight and has a power-off stall speed that exceeds 24 knots is
not considered an "ultralight."

Truth be known, 99-percent of today's "ultralights" do NOT meet
the criteria above and are therefore actually illegal, unlicensed
aircraft being flown illegally by unlicensed pilots!

Granted, to the untrained eye my trike (like most trikes) looks like
an "ultralight" but my particular trike is actually an N-numbered
aircraft (not an "ultralight" by any stretch of the imagination) and I
am a CFII, and Commericial, Multi-Engine, Instrument pilot with an
Airframe & Powerplant mechanic certificate.

In other words, I am one of the very few in this country who is not
flying around in these things "illegally."

The reason the FAA doesn't enforce the current rules for "ultralights"
is because they recognize that the rules for ultralights were written
back in the early 80's and are woefully out-dated. Hence, new rules
and regulations are being promulgated for so-called "ultralights" as
we speak.

For more information, see: http://www.sportpilot.org/

On 6 Jan 2004 18:19:15 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Ian" wrote in message ...
robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

pendent mode
Keith was probably right - the original question was SU-30 related, and
you've proved him wrong quoting the SU-35 and Su-37????

/pendent mode

Hey moron, use your brain. Look at the title of the thread and first
sentence of the original poster's question!
Keith isn't saying that the Su-30 can't stop in midair, he's saying no
non-VSTOL/VTOL aircraft can stop in midair. Read his reply for
confirmation.
Yet amazingly both the Su-35 and Su-37 have DEMONSTRATED a dead stop
(no forward airspeed at all) in midair during highly complex manouvers
that only their aircraft can perform.
The F/A-18 might have a brief pause trying to emulate that manouver,
but it cannot dead stop like the Su-35 and TVC Su-37.
You want me to mail you the video?

Rob

Neither the Su-35 or the SU-37 can "stop" while airborne. Get that through
your thick skull.

Al Minyard

On 07 Jan 2004 09:54:26 GMT, nt (Krztalizer) wrote:



78 turns in an inverted flat spin?

Most people would call that 'dying'.

Gordon

I don't think I would even wait for impact, the coronary
would probably kill me about turn 15 :-)

Al Minyard

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On 6 Jan 2004 18:19:15 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Ian" wrote in message ...
robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

pendent mode
Keith was probably right - the original question was SU-30 related, and
you've proved him wrong quoting the SU-35 and Su-37????

/pendent mode

Hey moron, use your brain. Look at the title of the thread and first
sentence of the original poster's question!
Keith isn't saying that the Su-30 can't stop in midair, he's saying no
non-VSTOL/VTOL aircraft can stop in midair. Read his reply for
confirmation.
Yet amazingly both the Su-35 and Su-37 have DEMONSTRATED a dead stop
(no forward airspeed at all) in midair during highly complex manouvers
that only their aircraft can perform.
The F/A-18 might have a brief pause trying to emulate that manouver,
but it cannot dead stop like the Su-35 and TVC Su-37.
You want me to mail you the video?

Rob

Neither the Su-35 or the SU-37 can "stop" while airborne. Get that through
your thick skull.

Al Minyard

Well I have a Su-35 holding still for almost 20 seconds in midair.
Indicated airspeed at ZERO before tail finally drops and Su-35 pitches
forward and resumes aerobatic display for crowd. Absolutely stunning.
You're just ****ed because no other operational non VTOL/VSTOL can do
this.

Rob

From: (robert arndt)
Date: 1/10/2004 9:20 PM Central



Well I have a Su-35 holding still for almost 20 seconds in midair.
Indicated airspeed at ZERO before tail finally drops and Su-35 pitches
forward and resumes aerobatic display for crowd. Absolutely stunning.
You're just ****ed because no other operational non VTOL/VSTOL can do
this.

Rob


A helicopter in hover will show zero IAS. An aircraft in a hammerhead stall
will show 0 IAS.

As for the 20 seconds how about providing us with a clip or web site?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 1/10/2004 9:20 PM Central



Well I have a Su-35 holding still for almost 20 seconds in midair.
Indicated airspeed at ZERO before tail finally drops and Su-35 pitches
forward and resumes aerobatic display for crowd. Absolutely stunning.
You're just ****ed because no other operational non VTOL/VSTOL can do
this.

Rob


A helicopter in hover will show zero IAS. An aircraft in a hammerhead stall
will show 0 IAS.

As for the 20 seconds how about providing us with a clip or web site?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I have it on an authentic Russian airshow demonstrator video- recorded
on VHS. It was taped outside Moscow and given to me by a friend to add
to my collection.
I offered to mail it to the first person who argued about it.

Rob