Challenger Crashe at TEB

"Darkwing Duck" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote in message ...

"Blueskies" wrote in message
.. .

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:50:35 -0900, Scott Skylane
wrote:

Blueskies wrote:
/snip/ Someone on a respirator with head
injuries was hit while driving his car, and a couple more were injured
when hit...

Well, he shouldn't have been driving in the first place!!!


LOL!!! That's exactly what I was thinking!!!

z

LOL - OK, I get it!

Sad day for a couple of folks - just heard two died...


Not that I can find anywhere -

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ap/plane_crash

Still a wild deal. I flew IN a Challenger a couple times, amazing plane. Beats my 172!


Yep, nothing I can find now. Damn TV. I guess still not a good day, but not as bad as before?!?!

Darkwing Duck wrote:

"Blueskies" wrote in message
.. .

"zatatime" wrote in message
. ..

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:50:35 -0900, Scott Skylane
wrote:


Blueskies wrote:

/snip/ Someone on a respirator with head
injuries was hit while driving his car, and a couple more were injured
when hit...

Well, he shouldn't have been driving in the first place!!!


LOL!!! That's exactly what I was thinking!!!

z

LOL - OK, I get it!

Sad day for a couple of folks - just heard two died...



Not that I can find anywhere -

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ap/plane_crash

Still a wild deal. I flew IN a Challenger a couple times, amazing plane.
Beats my 172!

Except at short-field takeoffs and landings! :-)

Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Joe Johnson wrote:


To Peter R. and Gary Mishler. Say for sake of argument that the pilots
missed a thin layer of frost. If discovered, are there any remedies short
of a full, formal deicing?


I am not qualified to answer as I have no experience in anything greater
than a single engine piston aircraft.

That said, when my aircraft was frosted over in those three incidents, my
only fly-able option was to request a complete aircraft deicing.

Fortunately, in all three cases the line crew was available, had the deice
fluid nearby, and did it for free. I tipped them generously.

If deicing were not an option, I would have had to get a hotel and wait
until the frost melted off the next day, or some liquid deicing were
available. In no case would I have attempted to take off with it on the
wing surface.

Why? It is acceptable to "polish the frost smooth" per FAR 91.527.

Matt

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
Thank you for pointing this out. The "visable moisture" requirement is
for
in-flight icing, not frost. Temp/Dewpoint at TEB yesterday morning was
M04/M08. Obviously the "collecting surface" was below freezing and the
temp
dewpoint spread was narrow enough for the humidity to sublimate and create
frost on the wings.

Jim

Sounds like we're closing in on an answer, or at the very least reasonably
informed speculation.

Matt Whiting wrote:

Why? It is acceptable to "polish the frost smooth" per FAR 91.527.

Three words: New paint job

--
Peter







----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Matt Whiting wrote:

Why? It is acceptable to "polish the frost smooth" per FAR 91.527.

Three words: New paint job

--
Peter

Those cans of spray-on windshield de-icer, which are mostly alcohol, seem to
do a great job, even on very heavy frost. Seems like two or three, and a
towel for a wipedown, would be a good thing to carry. Save the paint, fast,
complete, and not two expensive when compared to a paint-job, airport de-ice
(if available), or a new plane and crew.
--
Jim in NC

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Darkwing Duck wrote:

"Blueskies" wrote in message
.. .

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:50:35 -0900, Scott Skylane
wrote:


Blueskies wrote:

/snip/ Someone on a respirator with head
injuries was hit while driving his car, and a couple more were injured
when hit...

Well, he shouldn't have been driving in the first place!!!


LOL!!! That's exactly what I was thinking!!!

z

LOL - OK, I get it!

Sad day for a couple of folks - just heard two died...



Not that I can find anywhere -

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ap/plane_crash

Still a wild deal. I flew IN a Challenger a couple times, amazing plane.
Beats my 172!

Except at short-field takeoffs and landings! :-)

Matt

Yeah, but the Challenger had a BATHROOM!

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
Peter R. wrote:
...
If deicing were not an option, I would have had to get a hotel and wait
until the frost melted off the next day, or some liquid deicing were
available. In no case would I have attempted to take off with it on the
wing surface.

Why? It is acceptable to "polish the frost smooth" per FAR 91.527.

Interesting. It seems a rather dubious practice to me. It would indeed
appear to be legal in the US - but, FWIW, it isn't legal in Canada.

On 2/2/05 8:24 AM, in article ,
"Jon Kraus" wrote:

It looks like the Challenger skidded off the runway and crashed into a
warehouse at TEB. Isn't this the same kind of plane that crashed on
takeoff in Colorado? It looks like the plane remained intact so
hopefully the passengers and crew are OK.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146112,00.html

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201 4443H


It seems to me that beyond the fact that they did ultimately crash, this
crew made the right decision to abort the takeoff and avoided an accident
that would likely have been much worse.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Peter R. wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


Why? It is acceptable to "polish the frost smooth" per FAR 91.527.


Three words: New paint job


Won't hurt it if the rag is soft and you don't polish the frost clean
through to the paint. Keep in mind that you don't have to remove the
frost, just knock off the roughness. This doesn't take much effort
typically.


Matt