Orlando Crash Video

I would surmised that the death incurred from the instantaneous stop with a
concrete pole.. even then he was still flying.. so hitting that pole at an
estimated 45-55mph.. would be the same as hitting that pole with your light
weight car.. without the benefit of an airbag.

BT

"Cockpit Colin" wrote in message
...
"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height..
he
did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving
than
concrete power poles..

I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that
this
was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits the wire
it
appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops vertically. Sure, nothing
I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't see anything that I would have
thought would have killed anyone, assuming they were belted in good and
tight.

"pnw_aviator" wrote in message ups.com...

Here is the NTSB prelim report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...13X00046&key=1


You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and still had a running engine, why didn't they try
to land anywhere they could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse it to get to the
airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to see
if the CHT was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need to make a decision right here right
now, on the ground, that if I see low or zero pressure I will land immediately...

"Cockpit Colin" wrote in
:

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top
height..
he
did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more
forgiving
than
concrete power poles..

I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that
this was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits
the wire it appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops
vertically. Sure, nothing I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't
see anything that I would have thought would have killed anyone,
assuming they were belted in good and tight.



That last bit when the left side of the cockpit took ALL the brunt of
the electric poll would have done it. Unfortuatly, my bet is, the
pilot's cranium took a good bit of light pole as well.

BeaglePig

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
I finally got some time to put this one up on our site. See it at

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...ash_1-2005.mpg

It's a HUGE file, sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.

For future reference, to you and whoever did the video capture from his
Tivo...

It makes no sense whatsoever to capture the video in slow motion. All that
does is add unnecessary frames. The end viewer can slow the video down if
they like (any decent media player will do that), and adding frames
proportionally expands the size of the file with NO benefit.

On the bright side, you were incorrect about the video being enlarged. It's
actually been reduced from NTSC size (DV capture is usually 640x480, once
the video's been resampled to make square pixels) down to 321x240 pixels,
effectively reducing the size of the file by 3/4ths.

I would agree with people who suggest that rather than saying "HUGE" you
just state how large the file is. "HUGE" means practically nothing in terms
of understanding exactly how large the file actually is.

It really shows how little choice the poor Cessna pilot had at the last
moment, when that pickup truck suddenly appeared out of no where. His
choices were either (a) hit the truck, or (b) try to veer to the right
and avoid it.

He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
life in exchange. A true hero.

I disagree that the pickup "suddenly appeared out of no where". Maybe it
did, but nothing about the video suggests that the truck was anywhere other
than right on the road all along. It's there traveling in that lane as soon
as the camera's panned enough to the left to show it.

Furthermore, while the outcome was positive for the occupants of the truck,
that's simply a matter of good luck. The resulting crash could just as
easily have ended up with the airplane dropping at 0 forward speed right in
front of the truck. That likely would have had worse consequences than
simply landing the airplane in front of or even on top of the traffic in the
road.

More importantly, a hero would not have lined up on a busy roadway in the
first place when selecting an emergency landing site. Roads are one of the
worst choices for an emergency landing, at least in any developed area, due
to the traffic and (oddly enough) utility poles and lines.

Pete

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:52:10 GMT, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"pnw_aviator" wrote in message ups.com...

Here is the NTSB prelim report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...13X00046&key=1


You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and still had a running engine, why didn't they try
to land anywhere they could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse it to get to the
airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to see
if the CHT was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need to make a decision right here right
now, on the ground, that if I see low or zero pressure I will land immediately...


Without knowing all the facts of what the engine was sounding like,
what their oil temp was reading, and other gauges (if they had other
gauges) were reading, I too would have gone for the airport, it was
only 8 miles out. Why risk a dangerous off airport landing in a
highly populated area for what could be a bad gauge. I too have had
to make that same decision a few years ago with a gas gauge. In a
twin, I was making a flight that was 3.5 hours long with full tanks
that have a 5.5 hour endurance. Just before I was to arrive at my
destination about 10 min, I noticed that the right tank was showing
near empty with my left tank showing 20+ gallons remaining (which was
where it should have been). I had myself convinced it was a gauge. I
was IMC at night, by myself and in icing conditions, on my final
vector to intercept the LOC when my right engine died. After the "OH
****" thought went through my mind, I hit the cross feed, continued on
with the approach, after what felt like 30min's (of course it was only
probably a few seconds) the engine sprang back to life and I continued
into the airport and landed safely. The next day, I had the thing
checked out and found out that I had a ruptured fuel bladder. Because
it was dark and IMC, I couldn't see the fuel leaking out.

Its really hard to say "I would have" without being in the cockpit and
seeing what the pilot is seeing and hearing and interpreting.

My .02


Scott D

To email remove spamcatcher

I would guess that the root of the wing killed the right seater as it
sheared off - a strong chance that the root entered the cockpit.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article ,
"Cockpit Colin" wrote:

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height..
he
did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving
than
concrete power poles..

I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that this
was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits the wire it
appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops vertically. Sure, nothing
I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't see anything that I would have
thought would have killed anyone, assuming they were belted in good and
tight.

Secondly, I have to agree with Martin in that "huge" is somewhat
'relative' - for example, I routinely work with video files in the range
of
13 to 20 Giga bytes, which I think of as normal - so I tend to think of
your
'huge' 14MB as being 'trivial' (took less than 2 1/2 minutes to download).

Well, for the 70% of American internet users still on dial-up connections, a
14 mb file will take all day to download.

That's "huge" for most people!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
life in exchange. A true hero.

I think "hero" is... well perhaps we all have a different definition of
"hero". I'd like to know more about the entire accident sequence before
judging the CFI on this one. Wasn't he landing right next to a golf
couse?

Whether his decision to avoid the pickup truck was stupid or not, he gave
his life in missing it.

The pilot may or may not be a hero in the end -- I don't know the whole
story -- but his final action was, indeed, heroic.

I would hope that counts for something.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Blueskies" wrote in
You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and
still had a running engine, why didn't they try to land anywhere they
could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse
it to get to the airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of
it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to see if the CHT
was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need
to make a decision right here right now, on the ground, that if I see low
or zero pressure I will land immediately...

IIRC, on the Cessna Lycoming, the Gauge and the Idiot Light are separate
circuits. If one or the other remains in the Oil Pressure OK state, and the
temps don't rise, you have oil pressure. If they both indicate oil pressure
loss, it is over. Unless you need to travel some distance (over water,
perhaps) perform a forced approach. Don't rely on the fan for anything.

The video shows him way too high and fast for the fairway. And, if I read
the Terraserver image correctly, that was his only option at that point.

moo

Jay Honeck wrote:
He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
life in exchange. A true hero.

I think "hero" is... well perhaps we all have a different definition of
"hero". I'd like to know more about the entire accident sequence before
judging the CFI on this one. Wasn't he landing right next to a golf
couse?

Whether his decision to avoid the pickup truck was stupid or not, he gave
his life in missing it.

Jay, I never claimed anything the CFI did was "stupid".

Hilton