HG pilot in Brazil goes long - 450 km straight out- new source of SP pilots?

http://www.xcbrasil.com.br/flight/115498

IMHO the SSA should be putting more effort into "headhunting" these guys into our sport. They know how to fly, they know weather, they want to go soaring and XC.

At Nephi during the OLC event this year Bruno got all the 750 km + pilots up for a photo, I believe 7 of the 10 were past HG pilots.

One hurtle to get some of these guys is the greatly increased cost associated with Soaring.


That said, there are a ton of accomplished HG and PG pilots out there that have cycled out of those sports for various reasons, and at the top of that list for many of those guys is the accident rate. That is why I left. The foot launch and foot landing can be brutal. And then there is the tailless flight "tumbling" issue.

I would like to try a concentrated effort to contact and mentor these guys for a few years and see if it is productive. It may be worthwhile to help both the general membership numbers and the contest participation numbers.
Nick

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 10:27:59 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
http://www.xcbrasil.com.br/flight/115498

IMHO the SSA should be putting more effort into "headhunting" these guys into our sport. They know how to fly, they know weather, they want to go soaring and XC.

At Nephi during the OLC event this year Bruno got all the 750 km + pilots up for a photo, I believe 7 of the 10 were past HG pilots.

One hurtle to get some of these guys is the greatly increased cost associated with Soaring.


That said, there are a ton of accomplished HG and PG pilots out there that have cycled out of those sports for various reasons, and at the top of that list for many of those guys is the accident rate. That is why I left. The foot launch and foot landing can be brutal. And then there is the tailless flight "tumbling" issue.

I would like to try a concentrated effort to contact and mentor these guys for a few years and see if it is productive. It may be worthwhile to help both the general membership numbers and the contest participation numbers.
Nick

Hi Nick,

Its Dennis Cavagnaro and we flew Hang Gliders together many years back. Came into soaring a couple years ago along with two other HGing pilots in the New England area. I of course agree with your suggestion.

Dennis

It was only dangerous if you flew for the Green Team.

For me flying sailplanes has been much cheaper. I will never add to the competition seen, but I am having plenty of fun. My Schweizer is worth what I paid for it 15 years ago. The sun would have destroyed three or four hang gliders in the same time period. Tows are less expensive than buying 4X4's and finding a new girl friend every weekend for open distance retrieval.

At the last three SSA Conventions I attended, I suggested to either the Chairman of the ExComm or some other prominent member of the Staff that a Breakfast should be hosted (at the normal exorbitant fee) for hang glider pilots. I think it would be cool to meet some morning to see how many old faces we recognize who have made the jump to sailplanes. I see a lot of names on RAS who I remember from those great days of flying hang gliders.

Naturally, the idea made it nowhere with the SSA.

I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most.
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most.
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

Amen brother Nick!

Its the taste of going further, the challenge to stay up longer that drives HGing pilots and except for a few tow parks the physical and personal demands take there toll over the years. I flew HGers for 38 years, held regional XC records, placed well in national contests, won and place in regional contests. But to regularly fly with my HGing mates i had to carry my 85 lb glider plus harness up a steep mountain trail and after a while I would only go on the good days. Well in New England there aren't many "good" days. Waiting in a field until 2 in the morning after a 100 mile flight was loosing its luster.

At some point every HGer pilot faces a decision, either detune your equipment and fly less aggressively or quit altogether. Or they can increase their equipment performance and fly more miles and hours then they ever could before. Reach out to them and show them how to work a rudder and they will become excellent pilots.

Dennis

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 8:43:00 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
At the last three SSA Conventions I attended, I suggested to either the Chairman of the ExComm or some other prominent member of the Staff that a Breakfast should be hosted (at the normal exorbitant fee) for hang glider pilots. I think it would be cool to meet some morning to see how many old faces we recognize who have made the jump to sailplanes. I see a lot of names on RAS who I remember from those great days of flying hang gliders.

Naturally, the idea made it nowhere with the SSA.

Mark, I put this in my 2016 SSA Convention Folder, Good idea.

SF

On Monday, October 27, 2014 6:46:22 AM UTC-7, HGXC wrote:
On Sunday, October 26, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most..
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

Amen brother Nick!

Its the taste of going further, the challenge to stay up longer that drives HGing pilots and except for a few tow parks the physical and personal demands take there toll over the years. I flew HGers for 38 years, held regional XC records, placed well in national contests, won and place in regional contests. But to regularly fly with my HGing mates i had to carry my 85 lb glider plus harness up a steep mountain trail and after a while I would only go on the good days. Well in New England there aren't many "good" days. Waiting in a field until 2 in the morning after a 100 mile flight was loosing its luster.

At some point every HGer pilot faces a decision, either detune your equipment and fly less aggressively or quit altogether. Or they can increase their equipment performance and fly more miles and hours then they ever could before. Reach out to them and show them how to work a rudder and they will become excellent pilots.

Dennis

Amen and very well said Nick (and every one else). I flew hang gliders for nearly 20 years, and although I always knew about sailplanes and that they can fly faster and further, it didnt occur to me the real potential of sailplanes until Dan Murphy introduced me. I got immediately hooked when I realized that with a sailplane I can fly XC almost everyday and everywhere, and not just milk runs in perfect days as with hang gliders, especially in the Bay Area, where hardly anyone flies XC with HG or PG, while we regularly fly 500km flights with sailplanes year around.

Ramy

There are probably few hang glider or paraglider pilots around who are unaware of sailplanes and plenty of us who switched. I and several of my friends switched to sailplanes in the 1980s after a series of fatal accidents in our hang gliding club. I'm sure we all knew it wasn't the safest of sports (especially mountain foot-launching), but it took a couple of sharp shocks to get us to switch.

Mountain launches and cross-country retrieves sure took a lot of 4-wheel drive time!

Deflatable wings are a whole other story!

Mike

On Monday, October 27, 2014 3:16:14 PM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:
There are probably few hang glider or paraglider pilots around who are unaware of sailplanes and plenty of us who switched. I and several of my friends switched to sailplanes in the 1980s after a series of fatal accidents in our hang gliding club. I'm sure we all knew it wasn't the safest of sports (especially mountain foot-launching), but it took a couple of sharp shocks to get us to switch.

Mountain launches and cross-country retrieves sure took a lot of 4-wheel drive time!

Deflatable wings are a whole other story!

Mike

To be honest, I don't think that we can use safety as a reason to attract aging HG pilots. Maybe PG pilots. Obviously risk of injuries is magnitude lower, but not the fatality rate.

Ramy