Why is Soaring declining

(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes, I will have
achieved more in those five minutes than you have in your lifetime.
Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece of garbage
wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that soaring is just
a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the axle for the
motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost. Your soaring
achievements have done _what_ to help someone else that has a _real_
need?

Pipe it up your rear, kraut.

I knew it was too good to last. From feast to famine, he's back to his old
routine again.

That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes, I will have
achieved more in those five minutes than you have in your lifetime.
Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece of garbage
wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that soaring is just
a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the axle for the
motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost. Your soaring
achievements have done _what_ to help someone else that has a _real_
need?

Pipe it up your rear, kraut.



Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam

"Liam Finley" wrote in message
om...
Pat Russell wrote in message
. ..
Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat

I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth.

It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than
take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence.

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

After reading your post, I'm certain that the fish of the world "think that
water is largely an urban myth".

Tim Ward

Tony Verhulst wrote in message ...
Lennie, you're starting to scare me. A couple of good posts in a row.

Yeah. NOw tell me what I'm saying now that I didn't start saying in
1999. What I was seeing then is the same as I'm seeing now, ecomomy
down, less disposable income, more expensive gliders, death spiral.
The same people talking down any thought of an affordable, although
lower performance machine, and they still can't see that the high buck
way isn't doing it.

For a good illustration of my answer to PR's point #4, see the drivel
by liam the lemming.

(He'll never get a good word out of me for anything, now or ever. His
only good point is that he makes a perfect bad example.)

...but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address? [Elitism]

Review Wander's "GrowBook",
http://acro.harvard.edu/SOARING/books/growbook.htm . Let's make soaring
friendlier, less private, less mysterious.

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:407e265f$1@darkstar...


We flew slow, we flew fast, we practiced retracting gear, we went
to 9000 ft, we had a great view, the cockpit was big, and it
was $37 for the two of us.

My last tow charge was $38 and the flight lasted 18 minutes, consisted
mostly of a 720 left, 720 right and the pattern. (November, 2001)
Looking ahead, I could see another couple of weekends of dual in the
spring, another session of ground school, and another test. Looking
at the cost, and the costs of the plane, it didn't take much brain to
say that the returns were below the investment. However, I knew
earlier in the year, when I decided to try for it, that it was "make
or break", and there wouldn't be another chance. There are limits as
to how long you can dump everything you have into one activity and not
be able to do others that are just as much fun and can be even more
challenging. I didn't make it, probably an hour or so short, but I'm
not going to try it again either. The only regret I have is the $7k
that I could have used for other things. Had I gone ahead, I could
probably add on another $2k, and the end result wouldn't have been any
different.

illspam (Jim Vincent) wrote in message ...
I knew it was too good to last. From feast to famine, he's back to his old
routine again.

Me and that rodent from krautland are never going to have a good word
for each other. I couldn't ask for a more perfect example of an
elitist, arrogant fathead than finley.

Sad to hear.

Luckily the approach in our club is quite different. Most of the pilots remember their early flights
with Blanik or Pirat and have some romantic approach to those gliders. The attitude towards the
lower performing gliders and the pilots who fly them is even somewhat jealous. Like looking at the
young boy who's in love for a first time - memories, memories ... :-). Of course later in your life
you meet the females, who look better and perform better than the first-one ;-). As you do with
gliders. But no-one can never take away your first love and remaining warm feelings towards the
subject.

There is no point in badmouthing early training gliders. Somehow the youngster has to gain the
experience to jump in to the glass cockpit. And you can bet that while sitting in the cocpit of 2-33
or Blanik and watching a beautyful glass glider taking of, he's thinking about "Gee, can I fly
that-one? Ever?". It seems helluva long way to go for a youngster and responsible pilot won't make
it seem longer or non-achievable.

So. The real problem seems to be that there's too few enthusiastic pilots left who lure other people
to soaring. One has to realise, that even the records set by Ohlmann mean nothing if there isn't
tens of thousands of pilots who seldom fly away from the gliding distance of the airfield and who
actually have a clue, what an achievement those records are.

The responsibility of every single pilot out there is to take care that youngsters get lured to
gliding. Personal example works best.

Regards,
Kaido Tiigisoon
www.purilend.ee
Jantar Std 3


"Jim Vincent" wrote in message
...
somewhere
with a 4th hand Woodstock towed behind an old Jetta and step out on
the field dressed in Levi's and a T-shirt there will be a few pilots
quietly snickering in the background about my poor performing
hardware.

Too right! A large percentage of members at my club proclaim anything other
than glass as a Piece of Sh** and gladly tell new students this. Never mind
having to "dumb down" to fly a 1-26.

Sadly, the new students who haven't a clue take on the same attitude.

Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam

At 23:24 15 April 2004, Lennie The Lurker wrote:
(Liam Finley) wrote in message news:...

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights
to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the
world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes,
I will have
achieved more in those five minutes than you have in
your lifetime.
Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece
of garbage
wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that
soaring is just
a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the
axle for the
motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost.
Your soaring
achievements have done _what_ to help someone else
that has a _real_
need?

Pipe it up your rear, kraut.



Oh Lennie, Lennie, Lennie. You nearly had us convinced
for a second that you had actually sorted out your
severe metal disorder! But, all good things come to
those who wait! I knew you would go back to your old
ways eventually.

your last post - Sorry your last flight wasnt that
good. My last flight at a similar cost was in a Discus
2a (Monday) running a convergence line up and down
England. It was absolutely awesome. I dont regret spending
a single penny on gliding. I think its tragic that
you are angry with the gliding scene and, as always,
am at an utter loss at why you persist in posting here
when you have such a (well documented) hatred for gliding.

Elitism - its lonely at the top but the view is good!
(I put that here as a joke!!)

Owain

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:40:02 GMT, Pat Russell
wrote:

Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?


Sadly, these days (in the UK anyway) it seems that accusations of
elitism often get applied to anything that can't be mastered instantly
and doesn't involve chasing a ball. Gliding is obviously elitist just
because becoming a soaring pilot takes time and involves learning a
number of new skills.

And, please lets not argue about the (perceived) cost: the amount that
ordinary folks are prepared to spend on, e.g., gokarting for their
kids or golf can easily exceed the cost of soaring. Again, that
assumes UK club fees and glider prices, so that comparison may not
work elsewhere. I know a guy whose son was close to top rank in
karting - they spent £20K a year running that kart and competing - and
another family who lashed out £1200 on a used kart for their kid. In
the UK you could get solo for less than the cost of that used kart.
Buying my ASW-20 and flying it for a year will cost less than £20K.
Amortising that cost over 10 years will reduce the yearly outlay to
the equivalent of flying a club glider, so over time gliding is vastly
cheaper than top-level karting and I bet that still holds if I'd
bought new kit such as an ASW-28.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :