A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Gliding Club Experiences



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old November 6th 20, 02:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Fri, 06 Nov 2020 04:46:34 -0800, waremark wrote:

What did you do after lockdown? We were not flying dual at that stage,
so solo pilots all flew after the lockdown layoff (was it two months?)
without any checkrides.

I'd managed to do the the chalk&talk seminar before lockdonn, but not the
check flights. So, after lockdown was lifted I got 2 hours in our
simulator: winch launches, launch failures, general flying under calm,
strongish wind both on-run axis and crosswind. Instructor behind a glass
window and with intercom hooked up. I'd guess was about as thorough
checkout for launch eventualities and landings as can be done on a
simulator.

Passed that and was given a solo winch launch in an ASK-21, observed from
the ground by an instructor. Passed that too and was cleared to fly my
Libelle without the usual aero-tow for stalling and spinning in the
Puchacz. Pity: I always enjoy those exercises.

Our simulator has better than 180 degree visuals using 5 projectors. My
observations about it a

- I never managed a winch release without a stall, mainly because there's
no top of cable clue: it just back-releases. Winch power isn't cut and
the glider doesn't arc over as it reaches the top.

- The scenery is a good match for our local area but I found I was flying
cramped circuits, possibly due to display resolution or the fact that a
quick glance over the side doesn't help at all because all you see is
lino.

- I found landing difficult due to a lack of ground textu the initial
round-out was fine because the perspective view was excellent for that,
but the lack of close ground texture made getting the hold-off right
rather difficult: judging round-out and holdoff in the real K-21 is a lot
easier.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #12  
Old November 6th 20, 03:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 774
Default Gliding Club Experiences

What? You are saying that the simulator isn't as good as the real thing? I'm SHOCKED! Shocked, I tell you!

To hear the Condor folks in my club, you would think that the only things missing are the cold beer and groupies after the flight, and they are going to program those "features" very soon.
  #13  
Old November 6th 20, 03:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Fri, 06 Nov 2020 06:18:07 -0800, markmocho53 wrote:

What? You are saying that the simulator isn't as good as the real thing?
I'm SHOCKED! Shocked, I tell you!


Nah, as you probably sussed, I was just picking on the points that
reached out and grabbed me as the result of using the simulator for solo
pilots' annual flying checks as opposed to pre-solo training and visitor
demos. So, never mind how much better or worse it is than other
simulators: I was far more interested in how well it matches doing
circuits in an ASK-21 and, anyway that clearly what Waremark is
interested in too.

Our annual checks normally involve three things:

- a flying safety seminar.

- winch eventualities in an ASK-21 (two launches during which the only
thing you can be sure of is that the instructor and winchie have
conspired to make it unlikely that you'll get to the top of the cable.

- stalling and spinning exercises in the Puchacz after a 3500-4000 ft
tow, which may also involve out-of-position, low-tow or wake boxing on
the way up.

To hear the Condor folks in my club, you would think that the only
things missing are the cold beer and groupies after the flight, and they
are going to program those "features" very soon.

:-)

Our simulator is a dedicated room at the club, built round a surplus G103
cockpit and using the (Martin-Marietta?) semi-professional version of the
M$ Flight Sim. The cockpit is non-moving. We have a set of 5 projectors
screwed to the ceiling to give a bit more than 180 degree scenery in the
front seat. The instrument panel is an LCD flat screen mounted behind a
black-painted mask with cutouts for the instruments, so is quite
realistic. All controls (pedals, stick, airbrakes, trim and cable
release) are fitted and working though they don't give any speed-related
feel.

The simulator software can do both winch and aero-tow launches.

The only scenery I've seen it running is of our local soaring area,
including an accurate representation of our airfield, but other glider
fields are almost certainly available.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #14  
Old November 6th 20, 08:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kenn Sebesta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 5:36:59 PM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
What would you think was a reasonable proportion for a student at a volunteer operated club?


I don't really have a strong opinion on this. It's what works for the club members and the students. What's important is to have the conversation ahead of time, so that people have matching expectations.
  #15  
Old November 9th 20, 04:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Piet Barber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default Gliding Club Experiences


Our simulator has better than 180 degree visuals using 5 projectors. My
observations about it a

- I never managed a winch release without a stall, mainly because there's
no top of cable clue: it just back-releases. Winch power isn't cut and
the glider doesn't arc over as it reaches the top.


The VR goggles make the experience MUCH better -- except for those people who wear bifocals or trifocals. There are many subtle aspects of the real-cockpit experience that aren't duplicated well by multiple screens.
For instance, multiple screens don't allow you to lean around in your seat. You can't peer down to see the ground over the edge of the canopy rails. You can't peer around to see a glider at your 5 o'clock position.
  #16  
Old November 9th 20, 05:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 718
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 10:01:08 AM UTC-5, Piet Barber wrote:
Our simulator has better than 180 degree visuals using 5 projectors. My
observations about it a

- I never managed a winch release without a stall, mainly because there's
no top of cable clue: it just back-releases. Winch power isn't cut and
the glider doesn't arc over as it reaches the top.


The VR goggles make the experience MUCH better -- except for those people who wear bifocals or trifocals. There are many subtle aspects of the real-cockpit experience that aren't duplicated well by multiple screens.
For instance, multiple screens don't allow you to lean around in your seat. You can't peer down to see the ground over the edge of the canopy rails. You can't peer around to see a glider at your 5 o'clock position.


You can using TrackIR and it is not that expensive. You can have maps etc on another monitor which is very handy in the mountains.
  #17  
Old November 9th 20, 05:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 377
Default Gliding Club Experiences

I am interested in the comparison between VR and multiple screens. Apart from the fact that I had heard that VR is quite nauseous for some people, I though multiple screens achieving a 180 degree field of view would have a big advantage in that they enable peripheral vision. I presume that peripheral vision is not possible with VR - am I correct?
  #18  
Old November 9th 20, 06:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:43:11 -0800, waremark wrote:

I am interested in the comparison between VR and multiple screens.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK VR goggles don't yet let you sit in a
physical cockpit and see it well enough to read the panel and see and
grab the auxiliary hand controls, e.g. release knob, airbrakes, trimmer
and u/c lever.

The only VR goggles I've tried are the MS Hololens, which were excellent
for displaying virtual objects while letting you see everything else in a
room, but may not be so good at displaying the external view round a
physical cockpit or showing the interior of a virtual cockpit complete
with grabbable knobs etc positioned so you can get them first time, every
time.

Personally, I have no problem with the realism of 180+ degree viz wrapped
round a physical cockpit with a full set of physical controls. Seeing
that the cockpit is nailed down while the external view rolls and pitches
round it, the movement realism is quite acceptable,at least for me. As I
said previously, I could have done with a bit more resolution and more
heaving textured runways, but could quite easily live with what our
club's system does. And you only look over the side at lino once. Now its
operational we don't allow people to stand alongside the cockpit while
its operating: that could be quite dangerous if such a person tried to
move about while the sim is manoeuvring.

Ours will be up and running again the current lockdown ends: come and
take a look, though it may be a good idea to check the GRL office first
to see when it and a backseater for it is available: ours was set up from
the outset as a training tool, so the front seat has no access to
simulator settings, etc.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #19  
Old November 10th 20, 07:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 668
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Friday, 6 November 2020 at 14:46:38 UTC+2, waremark wrote:
Not the culture down the road at Dunstable - experienced solo pilots are never required to take a checkride, and would not very often request one.


EASA SPL and LAPL(S) licences have 24 month limit between checkrides, so you might want to have a word with those experienced pilots.
  #20  
Old November 10th 20, 04:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 402
Default Gliding Club Experiences

Le mardi 10 novembre 2020 Ã* 07:43:47 UTC+1, krasw a écritÂ*:
On Friday, 6 November 2020 at 14:46:38 UTC+2, waremark wrote:
Not the culture down the road at Dunstable - experienced solo pilots are never required to take a checkride, and would not very often request one.

EASA SPL and LAPL(S) licences have 24 month limit between checkrides, so you might want to have a word with those experienced pilots.


Per EASA, these are no check rides, but training flights - i.e. you can't fail them.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gliding Club Experiences [email protected] Soaring 1 November 2nd 20 07:18 AM
UK Gliding Club article Frank Whiteley Soaring 0 October 26th 13 03:03 PM
Gliding club in Innsbrook [email protected] Soaring 4 September 11th 05 09:04 PM
Kent Gliding Club (UK) Justin Fielding Soaring 2 June 27th 05 07:30 PM
Cheapest Club (was Best Gliding Club Website) Clint Soaring 20 November 15th 03 05:49 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.