Good Used 4 Seaters

Hi, Folks...

I've been recently researching aircraft that I might want to purchase
on a limited budget and I was wondering what the general consensus is
on inexpensive 4-seaters to own.

It seems to me that 4-seaters available in my price range are all
pretty old - Pacers, older 172s and Stinson 108's. I have no
objection to the aircraft being old, but I do want a safe one.

Does anybody have any thoughts on 4-seaters in the $30k-$40k range?
Am I completely fooling myself or can I get a decent older bird for
that price that will carry 4 people for a $400 hamburger on the
weekends?

Curt
--
"Captain Curt" Fennell

Curt Fennell wrote:

Does anybody have any thoughts on 4-seaters in the $30k-$40k range?
Am I completely fooling myself or can I get a decent older bird for
that price that will carry 4 people for a $400 hamburger on the
weekends?

That shouldn't be difficult, except for the "carry 4 people" part. Most
4-seaters won't really carry 4 adults unless you leave a lot of fuel
behind, which is OK if the hamburger isn't too far away.

Maybe your "older" is my "middle-aged", but I think you ought to be able
to find a late-70s, early-80s 172, Cherokee, Sundowner, etc etc in that
price range. I wouldn't have any heartburn about owning a plane in that
age range.

Dave

On 2006-10-27, Dave Butler wrote:
Curt Fennell wrote:

Does anybody have any thoughts on 4-seaters in the $30k-$40k range?
Am I completely fooling myself or can I get a decent older bird for
that price that will carry 4 people for a $400 hamburger on the
weekends?

That shouldn't be difficult, except for the "carry 4 people" part. Most
4-seaters won't really carry 4 adults unless you leave a lot of fuel
behind, which is OK if the hamburger isn't too far away.

Actually, I won't be carrying 4 big people. My family is two medium
size adults and one 5 year old.

Maybe your "older" is my "middle-aged", but I think you ought to be able
to find a late-70s, early-80s 172, Cherokee, Sundowner, etc etc in that
price range. I wouldn't have any heartburn about owning a plane in that
age range.

Older is relative.... perusing the websites, most of the sub-$40k 4
seaters I've seen close to my age, which is to say pre-1960.

Curt
--
"Captain Curt" Fennell

Curt Fennell wrote:

Older is relative.... perusing the websites, most of the sub-$40k 4
seaters I've seen close to my age, which is to say pre-1960.

I set out to prove you wrong and searched www.trade-a-plane.com for 172s
in the 30-40K range, and .... you're (almost) right. I found mostly 196x
with a sprinkling of early 197x, and a couple of late 197x.

I think you might be looking in the wrong places. Those people who
advertise on trade-a-plane are advertising there because they couldn't
sell their plane locally, maybe because their price is too high. Those
aren't sold prices, they are just advertised prices.

.... or else I'm out of touch with prices these days, always a possibility.

Try looking at local FBO bulletin boards and asking around at the FBO.

Dave

I set out to prove you wrong and searched www.trade-a-plane.com for 172s
in the 30-40K range, and .... you're (almost) right. I found mostly 196x
with a sprinkling of early 197x, and a couple of late 197x.

I think you might be looking in the wrong places. Those people who
advertise on trade-a-plane are advertising there because they couldn't
sell their plane locally, maybe because their price is too high. Those
aren't sold prices, they are just advertised prices.

I set out to prove your right... ;-)

I went to controller.com and found a dozen 1970's 172's for $40,000 or
less.

http://tinyurl.com/yk8kxf

Visiting airports and looking at the local FBO bulletin boards is a
great way to find airplanes, as you suggested...

Best Regards,
Todd

Curt Fennell wrote:
: Actually, I won't be carrying 4 big people. My family is two medium
: size adults and one 5 year old.

If you're not in the mountains, a Cherokee 140 would do that at least for a
few years until the 5 year old gets bigger. A 160 or even better yet a 180 would do
that just fine.

: Older is relative.... perusing the websites, most of the sub-$40k 4
: seaters I've seen close to my age, which is to say pre-1960.

I just don't see what everyone's infatuation with "newer" aircraft is. The
fact of the matter, with the exception of the planes made since the GA revitalization
act, ALL GA planes are old! Does it really matter if it's a '76 or a '66 model? I
don't think so... one's 30 years old, the other's 40 years old. The *condition* of
the plane is what's important. Granted, an older plane has been around longer and has
had more opportunites to be unloved, but really does not intrinsically affect it's
quality IMO.

Now, that said, there are some things to look out for in older planes.
Unusual models can be difficult to find parts for. Some had cantankerous instrument
layouts (e.g. pre-'69 Cherokees didn't have the standard T-layout and instruments are
sorta scattered everywhere). Older has more opportunity for corrosion.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In a previous article, Curt Fennell said:
Does anybody have any thoughts on 4-seaters in the $30k-$40k range?
Am I completely fooling myself or can I get a decent older bird for
that price that will carry 4 people for a $400 hamburger on the
weekends?

Our flying club just sold our 1977 PA28-161 Warrior. We had it listed for
$43K but it ended up going for closer to $35K because the market is so
depressed. Except for the fact that it didn't have an autopilot, it was a
great plane and I was almost tempted to buy it myself. You can see from
the pictures at http://xcski.com/gallery/v/rfc/38290/ that it had great
paint and a good pre-GPS panel.

With full fuel, it could carry 595 pounds. Whether that's 4 people or not
depends a lot of the people.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Remember, you're dealing with developers. If they knew what they were
doing, they wouldn't be doing it.
-- Mike A

I'll have to second Paul's recommendation on the Warrior and it's not
only because I own one. If you do the research, the Warrior has one of
the best useful loads for the price range. Typical full fuel payloads
hover around 600 lbs (give or take 50 lbs). That's the same as many
six-seater full-fuel payloads--albeit not as fast of course.

There are usually more Archers on the market than Warriors at any given
time but the Archers run about $20K-$40K more for similarly-equipment
airframes. The cruise speeds are only a few knots more but they have
about 100lbs more useful load. Again, pretty darn good.

Cessna 172's are of course good but similar models are usually about
$10 more than the Pipers.

As others have advised, the best place to find/get any aircraft is at
your local airport.

Marco

Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, Curt Fennell said:
Does anybody have any thoughts on 4-seaters in the $30k-$40k range?
Am I completely fooling myself or can I get a decent older bird for
that price that will carry 4 people for a $400 hamburger on the
weekends?

Our flying club just sold our 1977 PA28-161 Warrior. We had it listed for
$43K but it ended up going for closer to $35K because the market is so
depressed. Except for the fact that it didn't have an autopilot, it was a
great plane and I was almost tempted to buy it myself. You can see from
the pictures at http://xcski.com/gallery/v/rfc/38290/ that it had great
paint and a good pre-GPS panel.

With full fuel, it could carry 595 pounds. Whether that's 4 people or not
depends a lot of the people.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Remember, you're dealing with developers. If they knew what they were
doing, they wouldn't be doing it.
-- Mike A

Marco Leon wrote:

I'll have to second Paul's recommendation on the Warrior and it's not
only because I own one. If you do the research, the Warrior has one of
the best useful loads for the price range. Typical full fuel payloads
hover around 600 lbs (give or take 50 lbs). That's the same as many
six-seater full-fuel payloads--albeit not as fast of course.

Apples and oranges. The six seaters are made with some pretty big gas
tanks which provides a tremendous amount of flexibility. A better
comparison is to fill the six seater with your max gas in the warrior
and then do the comparison. You will then see the six seater kills your
bird.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

Apples and oranges. The six seaters are made with some pretty big gas
tanks which provides a tremendous amount of flexibility. A better
comparison is to fill the six seater with your max gas in the warrior
and then do the comparison. You will then see the six seater kills your
bird.

(fill with max gas in terms of range/endurance, not gallons).