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#31
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Bob Salvo wrote: The original post referred to gliders that used flaps and divebrakes (spoilers), not gliders that use only flaps for landing. Flap only gliders that use flaps for landing require more accurate speed control during approach/landings. I once saw an HP-10 (no spoilers) float the entire length of the runway and end up in the trees at the far end, just because the very experienced pilot did not pay attention to his approach speed. I heard about another competent airman who flew a Schweizer 1-35 (again no spoilers) for the first time and had trouble putting it down, so he removed the flaps to prevent over running the runway; he landed hard, causing minor damage to the fuselage. OTOH, on a flapped/spoilered ship, I've seen a very experienced pilot mistake the flap control for the spoiler control and end up in a tree just short of the runway. Udo provides some very valuable advice that newcomers to flaps would be wise to heed. This includes taking a high tow on your first flight, practicing with the flaps at altitude, and assuring that the runway is long. This is what I did on my first flight in a flapped (flaps-only) ship. I had only about 25 hours flying anything at the time. I agree with Udo that flaps should not be feared. Of course they must be respected. But dumb/dangerous maneuvers can be done in any glider with or without flaps. Regards, -Doug |
#32
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Hi Bob,
I can recite the same scenarios with conventional gliders. During my first four seasons of flying my "dangers Glider" A Twin Grob got bang up twice, in the last one it got written off. In each case Pilots flying solo in it. An other incident an Astir landed short and it got written off as well. Shortly there after a Blanik with a CFI on board landing short running into a fence also a write off. All home field mishaps This was the beginning of the end for the club and I am sad to say the club is no longer with us. Udo "Bob Salvo" wrote in message ... The original post referred to gliders that used flaps and divebrakes (spoilers), not gliders that use only flaps for landing. Flap only gliders that use flaps for landing require more accurate speed control during approach/landings. I once saw an HP-10 (no spoilers) float the entire length of the runway and end up in the trees at the far end, just because the very experienced pilot did not pay attention to his approach speed. I heard about another competent airman who flew a Schweizer 1-35 (again no spoilers) for the first time and had trouble putting it down, so he removed the flaps to prevent over running the runway; he landed hard, causing minor damage to the fuselage. OTOH, on a flapped/spoilered ship, I've seen a very experienced pilot mistake the flap control for the spoiler control and end up in a tree just short of the runway. "Udo Rumpf" wrote in message ... None of the CFI's I knew were of help. It takes common sense, some forethought and a competent airman to start, regardless of how many hours you have. I my case I made my first flight in an all flapped glider after 14 hours in Gliders and completed my 300 km O&T after 40hours. As well as 3 outlanding in previous attempt all with this flapped glider. Please do not make it sound as if flying a flapped glider the first time out is dangerous. It is no more dangerous then going solo. Also, in my comments I provide a way to reduce the need for flap use the first time out. Udo "Ron Gregg" wrote in message ... AMEN Ron Gregg, CFI In article , Roy Bourgeois wrote: It is interesting to see how this thread changed from a response to a simple request for opinions about the advisability of flaps on a first ship - to a discussion of "how to land with flaps" then "It's OK to retract flaps on landing - because I did it" So let me please add a note of caution to the new pilot readers: 1) Flight/ground instruction should be done in person and by somebody who knows you and the specific glider you are learning to fly. 2) Read and understand the POH for the glider you are about to fly - it is more reliable than Internet postings. 3) Accept that retracting the flaps on approach is a very dangerous maneuver for the new pilot and the observation that some highly experienced pilots can do it safely does not mean that you should try it. Roy B. CFI |
#34
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Bert Willing wrote: Been there, done that (not properly locked the flaps when set). You need to react very fast on the stick, and you should have carried some extra speed before. Of course I agree with Roy - you can do a lot of things if you have the required experience... (and for the ASW20, I happen to have a couple of hundred hours on that glider). As for novice counsel, a newsgroup doesn't help anybody very much. You normally don't know where the advice comes from, and if you really want to have advice on how to fly or what glider to buy, you talk to instructors or experienced people *at an airfield*. Newsgroups are rather, hm, amusing gossip? I agree that one must be careful when getting "advice" from a newsgroup or lots of places on the internet. In my case I first sought information on how to fly my RS-15 (flaps only) from at least three different CFIGs at two different airfields. The only "help" I got was a lecture from one CFIG in California on how flaps only could get me in trouble in strong lift just beneath a cloud. But I really don't blame those CFIGs because they simply had no experience with this type of glider. As it turned out I received a lot of very valuable information from people belnging to a Yahoo Group dedicated to that type of glider. But your point about being careful of the source of information on the internet is a good one. Btw, regarding advice on what glider to buy: The head of the FBO was convinced I could not handle the RS and would likely spin it in straight away. Since I was relying on him at the time to get my license, that became an "issue". We had words. I eventually discovered the flight characteristics of the RS to be very gentle and an overall pleasure to fly. Compared to the G-103 which I had been training in the RS felt "spin-proof". But I was needlessly scared stiff for my first flight in the RS. Regards, -Doug |
#35
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Yeah... What Udo and Steve said... EGAD!!! THOSE FLAPS!!!
Jack Womack |
#36
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Yeah... What Udo and Steve said... EGAD!!! THOSE FLAPS!!!
Jack Womack |
#37
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Derek Copeland wrote:
3) Spin recovery becomes a bit more complicated. You are most likely to spin when turning slowly in a thermal with positive flap selected, in which case the first action must be to select neutral or negative flap before carrying out the normal spin recovery. Otherwise you risk exceeding the flap limiting speed in the recovery dive, which is a possible cause of several glider break-ups and fatalities. Be sure to read and heed the manual. In the ASW 20 and ASH 26, for example, selecting negative flap is used to halt the spin more quickly, not just to avoid potential overspeeding for the thermalling flap position. In those gliders, selecting negative flap may be sufficient to stop the spin with no further action. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
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