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#21
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On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 04:24:18 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote: snip I thought acetylene had to be stored upright? Well, my bottle gets transported in a horizontal position when I have to take it on a job, but I've always stored it and used it in a vertical position. I was told there are safety reasons for that, so I've always done that. I was always curious as to what those reasons are, though. snip from http://www.thebestlinks.com/Gas_welding.html Acetylene is obtained from the action of water upon calcium carbide. Calcium carbide in turn is produced by the reaction together in an electric arc furnace of carbon and calcium carbonate. Acetylene can be produced near where the welding is being done in an acetylene generator. More commonly it is produced in a central plant and then shipped to the welding site in special containers. These containers are packed with various porous materials (kapok fibre), then filled about half way with acetone. The acetylene dissolves into the acetone. This method is necessary because acetylene is unstable above 207 kPa (30 lb/inČ) and may explode. There is about 1700 kPa (250 lb/in²) of pressure in the tank when full. Acetylene gives a temperature of 3200 to 3500 ?C (5800 to 6300 ?F) when burned with oygen, which is the highest temperature of any of the gases mentioned here. TC |
#22
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"Roger" wrote I didn't think they could sell them without them. (caps) Tanks have had to have that provision for years. OTOH there are a lot of lost caps floating around... some where. I *think* tanks with a guard around the valve, (so a blow sideways can not knock off the valve) are still legal. I have an old acetylene tank like that. If the Acetylene tank were laying down I think I'd have a problem with all the acetone coming out the torch tip. Correct. Acetylene is actually dissolved in acetone, so as you use the gas and the pressure gets lower, the acetylene "evaporates" or "comes out of solution" to come out the tip as a gas. If the tank were on its side, you would get acetone coming out of the tip. There is also another difference in the tanks, between Oxy and Acety. The Oxy tank is a big open container on the inside. The Acety. is like a metal honeycomb, or metal sponge, with the acetylene and acetone in the little cells. I think it has something to do with providing maximum surface area of the liquid, allowing the acetylene to come out of solution at rapid flow rates. -- Jim in NC |
#24
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"G.R. Patterson III" wrote Well, my bottle gets transported in a horizontal position when I have to take it on a job, but I've always stored it and used it in a vertical position. I was told there are safety reasons for that, so I've always done that. I was always curious as to what those reasons are, though. George Patterson Although I have also transported cylinders horizontal at times, you (and I)are violating DOT regulation when we do. They must be vertical, and chained. (not bungee strapped, or tied with rope) There may be an out, if the cylinders are under a certain size. -- Jim in NC |
#25
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Morgans wrote: I have heard of a tank going through a cement block wall, but I would not doubt that this is an "urban legend". I'm sure one could do that. Toecutter just posted a link that states that acetylene bottles are pressurized to 250 pounds per square inch. I know the big bottles weigh something over 150 pounds. A concrete block can be easily shattered with a sledge hammer. Let one of those big bottles accelerate about ten feet, and I'd bet it wouldn't slow down noticeably going through that wall. Now that you mention it, I remember someone on the airport job telling me about an oxygen bottle that went through something substantial. Don't remember the details, though. I do remember the acetylene bottle that cracked at the neck on that job. Most of us smoked, of course, and it caught fire. The jet of flame was well over 60 feet high - it was higher than the tunnel wall, and that was 60 feet high (or deep, depending on how you want to look at it). George Patterson The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise. |
#26
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Morgans wrote: Although I have also transported cylinders horizontal at times, you (and I)are violating DOT regulation when we do. They must be vertical, and chained. (not bungee strapped, or tied with rope) There may be an out, if the cylinders are under a certain size. Mine may be under that size, but vertical it will be from now on. George Patterson The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise. |
#27
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The local A&P school in Denver keeps the O2 bottles inside but the
acetylene is stored upright outside the building in a chained off area (right outside the door). According to them, the threads on the bottles are left-handed, to ensure that the O2 (and nitrogen) valves cannot be accidentally installed on them. Plus, all 3 gases are in different colored tanks (O2 is green, as we all know...) The nitrogen is in black bottles. Forgot what color the acetylene is... |
#28
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Blanche wrote: According to them, the threads on the bottles are left-handed, to ensure that the O2 (and nitrogen) valves cannot be accidentally installed on them. That's correct. The threads on flammable gases are the reverse of non-flammable. Plus, all 3 gases are in different colored tanks (O2 is green, as we all know...) The nitrogen is in black bottles. Forgot what color the acetylene is... I used to have a small one that was orange. What paint there is on my current bottle is silver. IIRC, nitrous oxide bottles are blue. George Patterson The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise. |
#29
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In article ,
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote: Now that you mention it, I remember someone on the airport job telling me about an oxygen bottle that went through something substantial. I was told once that by an aero & astro faculty colleague if you were to make a gas bottle out of the best available steel, optimize the wall thickness for best tradeoff between weight and bursting strength, fill it with water, put a big Bunsen burner under it and heat it until it was just on the edge of bursting, tilt it at the right angle, and knock off the valve end, you'd have a steam rocket that could (just barely) achieve Earth orbit. Can't vouch for the numbers myself. The jet cycle that Evel Knievel attempted to fly across the Snake River Canyon in was a steam rocket. |
#30
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Horizontal positioned bottles with suddenly removed valves, turn into
rockets, and have been known to leave the area at great rates of speed, regardless of what obstacles stand in their ways. I've seen old USAF photos of the aftermath of one such 'rocket'. Concrete walls do not stand a chance. You suddenly get religon.......and start storing them correctly, right away. But, old USAF O2 refill carts contained 4 or 6 bottles (or maybe 8) horizontally strapped onto wheeled carts. I always wondered why this horizontal configuration was used. The bottles were connected into a manifold array and well protected from potential valve damage exposure. VL |
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