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Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 30th 18, 06:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

The signals were developed in the late 1940's, before water ballasted gliders (besides the SGS 1-21) and back when gliders mostly sat on their noses with the tail up in the air for all to see.

The SSF strongly recommends that when the glider and towplane are radio equipped (as almost all are these days) that radio calls be made along with standard soaring signals.

I generally don't let the ground crew hook up the rope until I'm ready to launch and I definitely don't give them a thumbs up unless I'm ready to launch.
  #22  
Old March 30th 18, 09:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chris Rowland[_2_]
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

The BGA signals were developed long ago, before modern gliders and water
ballast. They don't depend on the glider attitude or control movements.
They were initially designed for winch launching.

The way I see it the wing runner/signaller is in a better position to see
things that could go wrong, such as cable overruns or people landing, than
the pilot.

Chris

At 17:40 30 March 2018, Tony wrote:
The signals were developed in the late 1940's, before water ballasted
gliders (besides the SGS 1-21) and back when gliders mostly sat on their
noses with the tail up in the air for all to see.

The SSF strongly recommends that when the glider and towplane are radio
equipped (as almost all are these days) that radio calls be made along

with
standard soaring signals.

I generally don't let the ground crew hook up the rope until I'm ready to
launch and I definitely don't give them a thumbs up unless I'm ready to
launch.


  #23  
Old March 30th 18, 11:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 10:40:32 AM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
The signals were developed in the late 1940's, before water ballasted gliders (besides the SGS 1-21) and back when gliders mostly sat on their noses with the tail up in the air for all to see.

The SSF strongly recommends that when the glider and towplane are radio equipped (as almost all are these days) that radio calls be made along with standard soaring signals.

I generally don't let the ground crew hook up the rope until I'm ready to launch and I definitely don't give them a thumbs up unless I'm ready to launch.


I'd like to propose some r.a.s. hand signals.

  #24  
Old March 31st 18, 03:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

I'd like to propose some r.a.s. hand signals.

I want dibs on the middle finger symbol.



  #25  
Old March 31st 18, 08:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

The procedure in most European countries I've flown is very simple:
No radio communication, no take-off.
It's the 21st century.
  #26  
Old March 31st 18, 04:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

I fly from a place where tow planes don't have radios. When I fly from another operation that have radio equipped tow planes (everywhere else I fly from) I consciously have to tell myself I have comms with tow plane.

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 12:06:03 AM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
The procedure in most European countries I've flown is very simple:
No radio communication, no take-off.
It's the 21st century.

  #27  
Old March 31st 18, 04:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

There are still places, as Jonathan has noted that still dont use radios in the tow plane let alone the gliders, I personally find that objectionable, but not to the point of refusing to fly there. We at Prescott Area soaring use a winch over a mile away and no radio comms mean no tow until we do. And its not so much the before launch signals for me as the speed changes on tow that worry me more both winch and aero tow. Being a fairly new (50 aero tows) tow pilot, I find it particularly difficult, in the rough thermally air in AZ, to interpret signals from the glider without a radio call.

CH



  #28  
Old April 1st 18, 02:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 3:06:03 AM UTC-4, Tango Whisky wrote:
The procedure in most European countries I've flown is very simple:
No radio communication, no take-off.
It's the 21st century.


We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter the air waves, there is plenty of that already. Hand signals work fine for routine hook up and launch procedures. Towplanes make departure calls of course. Radio calls between tow plane and glider are not discouraged. The 21st century exists in America too.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8
  #29  
Old April 1st 18, 10:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 18:34:32 -0700, Tango Eight wrote:

We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter
the air waves, there is plenty of that already.

Thats never a problem at my club because, like all the bigger UK clubs,
we have our own frequency. Is this not usual in the USA?

Not criticising: just curious.



--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #30  
Old April 1st 18, 11:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

Le dimanche 1 avril 2018 11:07:50 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie a écritÂ*:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 18:34:32 -0700, Tango Eight wrote:

We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter
the air waves, there is plenty of that already.

Thats never a problem at my club because, like all the bigger UK clubs,
we have our own frequency. Is this not usual in the USA?

Not criticising: just curious.



--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org


If flying from a field with ATC, communication between glider and tug is typically done on a separate frequency. Once the slack has been taking up and everybody is ready to go, both switch to ATC (but the glider only listens)..
 




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