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#21
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One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card. Steve Hopkins wrote: I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this do wonders for public relations, I think they even managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed in his field that year! |
#22
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Nyal Williams wrote:
It helps to be on friendly terms with someone in agribusiness. As a protection before starting the season, know in general how much gross income 1 acre is expected to generate for several of the local crops, and keep these figures quietly in mind. I'm reminded of someone who landed out during a contest at Montague, California, about 15 years ago. The farmer became obnoxious, demanded something like $200, the pilot offered $50 compensation for what was essentially no damage. The sheriff was called, and the next day all assembled at field, including the glider, and a county agricultural official. Said official estimated the damage to the crop, under the best possible circumstances for the farmer, to be less than $25. Pilot again offered $50; the farmer said "$200 or nothing", so nothing is what he got. Pilot took glider and left. -- ----- change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#23
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Wonderful post. One wee addition.
A friend of mine swore by a wrinkle to the "offer to take the owner's picture with the glider using your digital camera and email him the photo" strategy. His idea was to get the farmer's youngest _kid_ in the cockpit, take a photo, and promise to send a copy. Instant enthusiastic friend and ally! Well worth the risk to his glider, he figured, to have someone ready to be disappointed should his/her father take a hard line with this extraordinary visitor. Bruce Chip Bearden wrote: With all due respect to those who've already paid, I don't agree with offering $100 for several reasons: 1) In the context described, it's an admission of liability for whatever damages the owner may decide (now or after you've departed) that you--or the hordes of spectators who run/drive out into the field to see the "glider crash"--have inflicted. 2) It invites a counteroffer/demand: e.g., "Gee, if this rich pilot is offering $100, I can probably get $500 out of him." 3) It guarantees that the NEXT guy to land in your field will be hit with a substantial demand. I've landed out about 100 times over the past 35 years and only had a few sticky situations. I like to think it's because I really try hard to treat the owners like human beings rather than ignorant peasants. Witnessing some of our crowd trying to communicate with local land owners is like watching someone speaking loudly to a blind person on the mistaken assumption that he/she is either deaf or stupid. Be that as it may, I've had my troubles. One bad case was an irascible owner about whom I was warned by the locals just before he drove up in his Cadillac. I went through the whole "I didn't have any choice, I'm just glad your field was here, I touched down between the rows [of 6" high beans] to prevent any damage, my primary concern is keeping spectators out of the field so they won't damage anything [this is a real issue and also resonates well with the owner as it says two things: you know what you're talking about, and you two are on the same side], thank you so much for your hospitality, etc." The owner walked back to the car, reached in for a clipboard, and shoved it at me, demanding that I supply my name, address, etc. Diplomacy wasn't working so I walked over to the cockpit, got my own clipboard and one of my turnpoint cameras and politely but firmly asked the farmer for HIS data, as well, explaining that I obviously hadn't done any damage so far, that my crew and I would de-rig and carry out the pieces to avoid any damage, and (importantly) that I would take photos from all four directions both before and after the glider was moved to establish to my insurance company that there wasn't any damage. Oh, and by the way, I planned to ask these nice fellows standing around us to sign a statement attesting to the lack of damage. I gave him my name, insurance contact, etc., but never heard a word. The only other sticky experience was when I had the misfortune to land in a beautiful hay field in Maryland...precisely one year after the previous GLIDER pilot had landed, driven over the hay to get his glider, and vanished before the farmer could find out who had done the damage. The injured farmer had been waiting one year to vent his anger and extract revenge! It took me almost an hour to talk him down and leave him reasonably mollified. If I could have gotten my hands around the throat of the idiot who'd caused the whole thing a year earlier, I'd have done what the farmer originally wanted to do to him myself. My advice: If you've really damaged the crop, apologize for the situation without admitting or promising too much (yes, it's your fault, but don't encourage the owner to think he's hit the lottery). Give the owner your insurance information and reassure him; that's what insurance is for, it doesn't happen very often, you've never had a claim, etc. And be nice. I can't emphasize this enough. Be nice and just keep talking. Put yourself in this person's shoes and commiserate. And although first impressions count for a lot (i.e., the first person the owner encounters is you), having a crewperson arrive who is equally skilled in conversation (and/or who is an attractive female) also helps. Having a couple of cute kids pop out of the retrieve vehicle and exclaim over the cows helps even more, for yet another reason why you should get your family involved in soaring. If you haven't damaged anything, be nice but try to avoid bending to extortion demands. I'm not a lawyer but my impression is that if the farmer refuses to let you secure your glider, he assumes liability if anything should occur. Most officers of the law are likely to be helpful in this regard even if they're friendly with the owner. If it starts to get tense, insisting on calling the local police/sheriff often helps cool things down; the irate owner usually doesn't expect the trespasser to call the police. Having said all of this, I'll admit that I have occasionally paid small amounts of cash as we're packing up to leave, mostly in compensation for the tractor that pulled the glider out of the field, etc. But I always ask if I can make a contribution to the owner's church instead of offering him the money directly. I've never had anyone look offended or fail to smile genuinely, shake my hand, and thank me. And I think all of my contributions have found their way into the offering plate on Sunday, making the whole experience a win-win for everyone. These days, offer to take the owner's picture with the glider using your digital camera and email him the photo. If he's a good guy, he will appreciate it. If he's threatening, the mere mention of photographic evidence might encourage him to be more cooperative. Just my opinion. Every situation is different. Remain calm even if the owner isn't acting rationally. Sometimes the best solution is to just keep smiling, keep soothing, and wait it out. Just because you can afford to fly doesn't give an opportunistic field owner the right to a transfer payment from your wallet to his. And keep thinking about the pilot who's going to land in the same field next year. Try to make sure he gets a nice reception, because it could be me. Chip Bearden * Make it clear that the landing was unintentional, and the field was chosen as a best last resort. Be visibly relieved that their field was available so that you didn't have to crash. * If they are anything but happy to have you there, offer them about $100 in cash per glider in exchange for any "damages" even if you landed in weeds, fallow, pasture, or plowed. That usually cheers them up at least a little. That's worked great for the two ag field retrieves I've worked. If you don't have $100 cash, or couldn't stand to part with it if you did, you probably shouldn't be flying cross-country. |
#24
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I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of any damage and you will be ok. "Greg Arnold" wrote in message news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07... One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back "good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card. Steve Hopkins wrote: I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this do wonders for public relations, I think they even managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed in his field that year! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#25
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Do you happen to know what the value of cotton is per acre?
Were I fly, most often the farmer/rancher is not on site, and I have not even seen ownership info posted so that I could contact him later. In situations like this, what should a pilot/crew do to minimize damage, and reduce the chances of angering the farmer? Is cutting and then repairing a chain link acceptable or not? If not what is the alternative? Thank you, "Birdy" wrote in message ... I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of any damage and you will be ok. "Greg Arnold" wrote in message news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07... One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the back "good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to the person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local glider ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card. Steve Hopkins wrote: I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this do wonders for public relations, I think they even managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed in his field that year! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#26
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Eric,
Was that Bruce L. that landed in Butte Valley? He said he had the farmer all calmed down when another glider saw him in the field and decided to land there also. Bruce said there was just no controlling the farmer after that. Out of Air Sailing, a pilot landed and walked up to the farm house to find a note pinned to the front door. "I have gone to town, if you're here when I get back, I'll shoot you". Mean farmers in Nevada. JJ Sinclair |
#27
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All very good posts.... When dealing with a receptive landowner,every efffort
should be made to placate him (or her). The real problem arises when dealing with someone who is totally intractable. At this point the best alternative is to call the local authorities and let the legal system deal with the situation. Regarding the situation in Florida, the landowner arrived at the site, demanded that the sheriff issue a summons and and absolutely refushed to even talk to pilots or crews. |
#28
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You've received many responses, all offering good advice. Here's a
suggestion to get real info on legalities. If you are an AOPA member, call them and make use of their member services, which include just this type of legal assistance. If you are not a member, perhaps you can convince an AOPA member to call and share with the group. |
#29
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JJ Sinclair wrote:
Eric, Was that Bruce L. that landed in Butte Valley? He said he had the farmer all calmed down when another glider saw him in the field and decided to land there also. Bruce said there was just no controlling the farmer after that. No, just one glider. As I remember it, the farmer wasn't angry, just obnoxious. I very vaguely remember "Tom" as the pilot's name, and that the Sheriff told Tom people around there didn't much like the farmer either. -- ----- change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#30
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That means that the gross per square foot is typically 1 cent, but
sometimes as high as 10 cents. Say you damage 10' by 100'. That typically would be $10, but might be $100. Not a lot of damage. Birdy wrote: I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land in a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you to remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages, gross per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other crops it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would like it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care of any damage and you will be ok. |
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