reverse the last thing you did.

I had an interesting talk in Narromine last week with a local
instructor about my LS6. I bought it because I thought it to have few
vices.

He knew one.One that almost killed him.

Coming back after a racing task he selected +10 flaps, plenty enough
to land with, especially when it's a bit windy.
On final he pulled full airbrakes after gong through some lift on
base. This causes the flaps to come along, out +10 towards Landing
flap. This happens automatically. It only doesn't lock automatically
in that case. When about 20 feet of the deck he put half his airbrakes
away for a smooth landing.

So far, that is what I do as well.

Now the problems started. While putting the airbrakes away the flaps
slipped to negative. Not very handy at 20 feet and relatively slow.
The glider promptly stalled.

He than did what he was thought by a test pilot." If everything goes
to ****, reverse the last thing you have done."

So contrary to what you would normally do when stalled, which is to
push the nose over , he pulled the brakes again, which in turn pulled
the flaps out again. He said that it saved his bacon. Took out the
undercarriage and hurt his back, but he walked away.

I've heard the Ventus 1 suffers from the same problem. Maybe some
other gliders as well. I thought I should share it with you just in
case.

cheers,

Mart

VH-NII

On Jan 26, 5:57*am, mart wrote:
I had an interesting talk in Narromine last week with a local
instructor about my LS6. I bought it because I thought it to have few
vices.

He knew one.One that almost killed him.

Coming back after a racing task he selected +10 flaps, plenty enough
to land with, especially when it's a bit windy.
On final he pulled full airbrakes after gong through some lift on
base. This causes the flaps to come along, out +10 towards Landing
flap. This happens automatically. It only doesn't lock automatically
in that case. When about 20 feet of the deck he put half his airbrakes
away for a smooth landing.

So far, that is what I do as well.

Now the problems started. While putting the airbrakes away the flaps
slipped to negative. *Not very handy at 20 feet and relatively slow.
The glider promptly stalled.


I do not believe this story.............
A glider that changes flaps settings back and forth by using spoilers?
I would suspect this a serious mechanical malfunction/problem
undetected during check up.
If this can happen I would not say it is a glider with a vice......
I would say it is A PIECE OF ****!

On Jan 26, 4:55*am, silentpilot wrote:

I do not believe this story.............
A glider that changes flaps settings back and forth by using spoilers?

Yes, that's the way the LS6 works. The flap and airbrake handles are
intertwined such that application of airbrakes prevents the
simultaneous use of negative flaps. Under most circumstances it works
pretty well. In this instance it did not function as intended.

If this can happen I would not say it is a glider with a vice......
I would say it is A PIECE OF ****!

Wow, all-caps invective. How insightful.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Jan 26, 11:25*am, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Jan 26, 4:55*am, silentpilot wrote:

If this can happen I would not say it is a glider with a vice......
I would say it is A PIECE OF ****!

Wow, all-caps invective. How insightful.

Thanks, Bob K.


all-caps invective......
YES AND NO!
Maybe to somebody that knows the modern funny song
PIECE OF **** CAR by Adam Sandler
this may only "sound" sarcastic.
I hope one day somebody will write/translate/copy a funny song
PIECE OF **** GLIDER.
I apologize to everybody else!
Happy Landings!

this may only "sound" sarcastic.
I hope one day somebody will write/translate/copy a funny song
PIECE OF **** GLIDER.
I apologize to everybody else!
Happy Landings!

piece of s**t glider, i got a piece of s**t glider
that f***ing pile of s**t, it never gets me very far
my gliders a piece of s**t cause the finish is f****ing shot
whenever i fly my glider, i have to swear a lot (its a piece of s**t)

i can't see through the canopy, cause my crew wiped with a dry rag
and the interior smells real bad cause the relief tube caught a snag
(its a piece of s**t)

its got no ILEC SN10, just a noncompensated vario
oh what i'd give for an ipaq, or at least maybe audio
and its got no f***ing airbrake, i'm always way out of control
every time i enter the patter i hear 'HEY, WATCH IT ***HOLE"

oh what the f*** did i do, what the f**** did i do, what the f*** did
i do, to get stuck with you
your wings are too short for FAI, the L/D is under 10, but im too
broke to buy anything new. oh f*** me!

im way too much drag on tow, the airplane always stalls
if i ever landed back at the airport the pilot would kick me in the
balls (ouch ouch ouch)
the canopy lock is busted, gotta use a f***ing coat hangar,
if a girl ever sees my glider theres no chance i'd ever bang her.


that pretty much cover it Paul??

If you wrote the glider tune, you should get an award of some kind.
It epitomizies all the suffering of those who are forced to fly crap
or are talked into buying an "Elmira" utility sled.
Simply acknowledging the existance of these poor creatures gives hope
that the possibility of advancement does exist.

"If not for those on the bottom, not I see the top"

R

I fly a LS-3A, and I noticed early on that you must have 20 degrees
flap to have full spoiler. I played with spoiler flap combination on
my first flight and noticed that it is possible to release the flaps
from the detent while deploying spoiler and go to negative flap by
accident. I usually just leave the flap in 20 degrees for landing.
It is possible to use less flap while landing, but you must make sure
to keep the spoiler handle as vertical as possible if you go to full
spoiler and then reduce the amount of spoiler. I use the back of my
hand to keep the flap in the notch I select. It is a weird system as
the spoiler driver slides inside the flap driver, so if you cannot
have any spoiler with full negative flap. Also, as you deploy the
spoiler the flap moves to the positive positions. I find 20 degree
flap is a lot of drag and you don't need a lot of spoiler. I've tried
landing with 10 degrees flap and it is possible to go to full spoiler
and back to 10 degree flap, but you must pay attention to the flap
handle position. Just leave it in 20 degrees for landing and come in
high.

Ed Gaddy

On Jan 26, 5:57*am, mart wrote:
I had an interesting talk in Narromine last week with a local
instructor about my LS6. I bought it because I thought it to have few
vices.

He knew one.One that almost killed him.

Coming back after a racing task he selected +10 flaps, plenty enough
to land with, especially when it's a bit windy.
On final he pulled full airbrakes after gong through some lift on
base. This causes the flaps to come along, out +10 towards Landing
flap. This happens automatically. It only doesn't lock automatically
in that case. When about 20 feet of the deck he put half his airbrakes
away for a smooth landing.

So far, that is what I do as well.

Now the problems started. While putting the airbrakes away the flaps
slipped to negative. *Not very handy at 20 feet and relatively slow.
The glider promptly stalled.

He than did what he was thought by a test pilot." If everything goes
to ****, reverse the last thing you have done."

So contrary to what you would normally do when stalled, which is to
push the nose over , he pulled the brakes again, which in turn pulled
the flaps out again. He said that it saved his bacon. Took out the
undercarriage and hurt his back, but he walked away.

I've heard the Ventus 1 suffers from the same problem. Maybe some
other gliders as well. *I thought I should share it with you just in
case.

cheers,

Mart

VH-NII

That's not supposed to happen in LS-6, as the flaps
are supposed to catch the detent. But it can happen.
There's some kind of spring that pulls the flap
handle towards the detent; sounds like that isn't
quite right in that particular glider. I owned a
couple of these gliders and always selected full
flap before using spoiler, which prevents this
possibility.

IIRC other gliders that retract flap with retracting
spoiler a
- early mosquito and mini-nimbus
- Calif A-21
Early Ventus does not have this problem IFF
proper flap detect is selected prior using
the spoilers.

Any others ?
Hope that helps someone out there,
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Duodiscus - x models on have interconnected landing flap and airbrake,
working in conjunction so that opening airbrake moves landing flap down.

Means that stall speed stays constant with flap proportional to airbrake
at all times. Quite neat especially as it avoids the nose up attitude
typical of non-flap ship.

Bruce


Dave Nadler wrote:
On Jan 26, 5:57 am, mart wrote:
I had an interesting talk in Narromine last week with a local
instructor about my LS6. I bought it because I thought it to have few
vices.

He knew one.One that almost killed him.

Coming back after a racing task he selected +10 flaps, plenty enough
to land with, especially when it's p on landinga bit windy.
On final he pulled full airbrakes after gong through some lift on
base. This causes the flaps to come along, out +10 towards Landing
flap. This happens automatically. It only doesn't lock automatically
in that case. When about 20 feet of the deck he put half his airbrakes
away for a smooth landing.

So far, that is what I do as well.

Now the problems started. While putting the airbrakes away the flaps
slipped to negative. Not very handy at 20 feet and relatively slow.
The glider promptly stalled.

He than did what he was thought by a test pilot." If everything goes
to ****, reverse the last thing you have done."

So contrary to what you would normally do when stalled, which is to
push the nose over , he pulled the brakes again, which in turn pulled
the flaps out again. He said that it saved his bacon. Took out the
undercarriage and hurt his back, but he walked away.

I've heard the Ventus 1 suffers from the same problem. Maybe some
other gliders as well. I thought I should share it with you just in
case.

cheers,

Mart

VH-NII

That's not supposed to happen in LS-6, as the flaps
are supposed to catch the detent. But it can happen.
There's some kind of spring that pulls the flap
handle towards the detent; sounds like that isn't
quite right in that particular glider. I owned a
couple of these gliders and always selected full
flap before using spoiler, which prevents this
possibility.

IIRC other gliders that retract flap with retracting
spoiler a
- early mosquito and mini-nimbus
- Calif A-21
Early Ventus does not have this problem IFF
proper flap detect is selected prior using
the spoilers.

Any others ?
Hope that helps someone out there,
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Hi All,

Thanks for most responses. I have learned a few things.

About the flaps always being locked, the flap lever moves in a long
slot with on one side the hooks to lock them. They only work in one
direction, to prevent them going forward. That is why the can move out
of lock,backwards, when moving the airbrakes. There is no spring that
pushes them back into the side with the hooks.

I know that this is used by pilots when flying faster then 150km/u or
80 knots with is the point of moving from 0 to -5 flap. Flying a
90knots you might want to use -1 flap to get best performance. Letting
the flaps float makes that happen.

Coming Saturday I will see if I can do a pratice run doing exactly
what happened , only with a bit of height.

Should have flown today..10k base with 8knot climbs. Work got in the
way.

Cheers,

Mart