Jim Pennino or...Jim Pinheado?

Kevin Gould, CEO of Piper, explains they sell
Czech sportcruisers with Piper decals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4nrIm8XqkU

---
Mark

Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:21Â*pm, wrote:

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.

WRONG (again). There can be multiple people involved, as I stated,
such as the person whom you bought it from.

"What if you bought the project from a previous owner who never
finished it?
It does not matter how many previous owners a project may have had -
as long as each owner intended to build the aircraft for their own
education or recreation - if you can document or show documentation of
the work that each did, it is as if YOU did the work!"

http://www.aircraftersllc.com/51percent.htm

Correct as far as registration goes, but to get the repairman certificate,
you have to show you were the primary builder and you know enough to keep
the thing airworthy.

That gets you the repairman certificate, which authorizes you to do the
annual condition inspections yourself.

None of this has anything to do with LSA's.

None of this changes the fact that if you, as you said you planned to do,
swap props for more performance on an aircraft flown under LSA rules:

If the aircraft is a LSA, you invalidate the airworthiness certificate, and
the airplane is now little more than scrap.

If the aircraft is certified, it can never again be flown as a LSA.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 15, 1:13*pm, wrote:

It depends on what country I'm living in.

LSA is a FAA definition ergo they only exist in the US.

I think you mean "AN" FAA definition, and...Wrong again. A
plane manufactured under the definition of LSA in the United
States is given that identity. They are also flown all over the
world and recognized as such, irrespective of any municipal
jurisdiction. The identity crosses borders. This is common
knowledge in the international community.


The airplanes may exist outside of the US, but they aren't LSA.

Wrong.

So, are you still planning to modify a LSA to increase the cruise speed,
which will invalidate the airworthiness certificate

Wrong. I can perform specific modifications to my LSA and it will
not invalidate the airworthiness certificate.

Question:
"What about repairing and modifying my LSA? That’s legal just as with
experimental aircraft, isn’t it?"

Answer:
"Yes and no, it depends on the type of LSA. If you build your own
experimental LSA (E-LSA), then you are the de facto A&P and can do
repairs and mods."

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/pilo...&print=1&page=


...as well as violate the
rules on who can perform maintenance on a manufactured aircraft?

WRONG. I can also also perform minimal maintenance on a manufactured
aircraft.

"However, if you buy a prebuilt “special” LSA (S-LSA), then you can
only do minimal preventative maintenance. (For a list, see FAR Part
43, Appendix A.) To make your own annual inspection, you must take a
16-hour maintenance course. But the 16-hour course only lets you
inspect your airplane for defects. You still can’t do significant
maintenance on it."
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/pilo...&print=1&page=

But then, I never said I was committed to buying AN (S-LSA). The
best route is thru builder assist take-over. It's cheaper and the
owner
upon completion may become the A & P. ( then you get yourself
in a community of like owners for full time expertise and advice )
You may now perform mods, repairs, and full maintainence of a
plane as sophisticated as the Arion Lightning.

---
Mark

--
Jim Pennino

On Sep 16, 10:06*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:21*pm, wrote:

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.

WRONG (again). There can be multiple people involved, as I stated,
such as the person whom you bought it from.

"What if you bought the project from a previous owner who never
finished it?
It does not matter how many previous owners a project may have had -
as long as each owner intended to build the aircraft for their own
education or recreation - if you can document or show documentation of
the work that each did, it is as if YOU did the work!"

http://www.aircraftersllc.com/51percent.htm

Correct as far as registration goes, but to get the repairman certificate,
you have to show you were the primary builder and you know enough to keep
the thing airworthy.

That gets you the repairman certificate, which authorizes you to do the
annual condition inspections yourself.

None of this has anything to do with LSA's.

Irrelevant. Many of the models I'm looking at are
all of the following...LSA and ELSA and yes even SLSA all
in the same final product. The distinction is the process
by which it came to completion.

None of this changes the fact that if you, as you said you planned to do,
swap props for more performance on an aircraft flown under LSA rules:

Wrong. LSA rules don't apply in Costa Rica.

If the aircraft is a LSA, you invalidate the airworthiness certificate, and
the airplane is now little more than scrap.

Wrong. The manufacturers have props which allow the
plane to go 170 or 180 mph. The airworthiness certificate
remains intact. Now you no longer have a light sport plane.
It can be sold anywhere to private pilots, or flown outside
of the United States.

If the aircraft is certified, it can never again be flown as a LSA.

Well sure. Same is true if you do what a lot of people
do, which is...put in a backseat. Or take off the winglets.
Or add unauthorized wheelpants. Etc, etc. Only a fool
would throw off the CG though.

---
Mark

--
Jim Pennino

Mark wrote:
On Sep 15, 1:13Â*pm, wrote:

It depends on what country I'm living in.

LSA is a FAA definition ergo they only exist in the US.

I think you mean "AN" FAA definition, and...Wrong again. A
plane manufactured under the definition of LSA in the United
States is given that identity. They are also flown all over the
world and recognized as such, irrespective of any municipal
jurisdiction. The identity crosses borders. This is common
knowledge in the international community.

No, since "FAA" begins with a consonant, a FAA...

No, LSA is a type of aircraft that only exists in the US and LSA's can
not be flown outside of the US.

The plane models registered in the US as LSA may be registered in other
countries under some designation specific to that country, but it is not LSA.

The airplanes may exist outside of the US, but they aren't LSA.

Wrong.

Right since no country other than the US has a type called LSA.

So, are you still planning to modify a LSA to increase the cruise speed,
which will invalidate the airworthiness certificate

Wrong. I can perform specific modifications to my LSA and it will
not invalidate the airworthiness certificate.

Wrong, no one can perform modifications to a LSA.

To maintain LSA status, the airplane has to conform to the manufactures
specifications.

A modification under the FAA definition is a change outside of the
manufacturers specifications.

Question:
"What about repairing and modifying my LSA? That’s legal just as with
experimental aircraft, isn’t it?"

Answer:
"Yes and no, it depends on the type of LSA. If you build your own
experimental LSA (E-LSA), then you are the de facto A&P and can do
repairs and mods."

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/pilo...&print=1&page=

Nope, not for a LSA.

It has to always conform to the manufacturers specifications, even if it
is a kit or just a set of plans.

...as well as violate the
rules on who can perform maintenance on a manufactured aircraft?

WRONG. I can also also perform minimal maintenance on a manufactured
aircraft.

I never said you couldn't, but you can not change props on a manufactured
aircraft of any kind without the proper certificates.

"However, if you buy a prebuilt “special� LSA (S-LSA), then you can
only do minimal preventative maintenance. (For a list, see FAR Part
43, Appendix A.) To make your own annual inspection, you must take a
16-hour maintenance course. But the 16-hour course only lets you
inspect your airplane for defects. You still can’t do significant
maintenance on it."

Yeah, so what?

Any pilot can do the maintenance on any airplane they fly under the limits
of Part 43.

Removing and replacing props isn't allowed under that, much less changing
props.

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/pilo...&print=1&page=

But then, I never said I was committed to buying AN (S-LSA). The
best route is thru builder assist take-over. It's cheaper and the
owner
upon completion may become the A & P. ( then you get yourself
in a community of like owners for full time expertise and advice )
You may now perform mods, repairs, and full maintainence of a
plane as sophisticated as the Arion Lightning.

No, you can never do any modifications to any LSA; it always has to conform
to the manufacturers, kit or pre-built, specifications.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 16, 10:06*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:21*pm, wrote:

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.

WRONG (again). There can be multiple people involved, as I stated,
such as the person whom you bought it from.

"What if you bought the project from a previous owner who never
finished it?
It does not matter how many previous owners a project may have had -
as long as each owner intended to build the aircraft for their own
education or recreation - if you can document or show documentation of
the work that each did, it is as if YOU did the work!"

http://www.aircraftersllc.com/51percent.htm

Correct as far as registration goes, but to get the repairman certificate,
you have to show you were the primary builder and you know enough to keep
the thing airworthy.

Wrong. You do not have to show you were the primary
builder.

--
Jim Pennino

On Sep 16, 10:45*pm, Mark wrote:

Irrelevant. *Many of the models I'm looking at are
all of the following...LSA and ELSA and yes even SLSA all
in the same final product. The distinction is the process
by which it came to completion.

Clarification: the above statement is ambiguous.

Let's take the Arion Lightning. They received certification
now to produce an SLSA lightning. That is complete off
the showroom floor. (actually, you preorder)

Or, you can use builder-assist, and produce the same
product. Now you've got an ELSA lightning.

But they're *both* an Arion Lightning LSA.

Or...you can put on wheel pants, omitt the winglets,
add high performance prop, and now you've got an
Arion lightning airplane, but not LSA.

This scenerio is underway at many LSA plants
across the world today.

---
Mark

Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 10:06Â*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:21Â*pm, wrote:

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.

WRONG (again). There can be multiple people involved, as I stated,
such as the person whom you bought it from.

"What if you bought the project from a previous owner who never
finished it?
It does not matter how many previous owners a project may have had -
as long as each owner intended to build the aircraft for their own
education or recreation - if you can document or show documentation of
the work that each did, it is as if YOU did the work!"

http://www.aircraftersllc.com/51percent.htm

Correct as far as registration goes, but to get the repairman certificate,
you have to show you were the primary builder and you know enough to keep
the thing airworthy.

That gets you the repairman certificate, which authorizes you to do the
annual condition inspections yourself.

None of this has anything to do with LSA's.

Irrelevant. Many of the models I'm looking at are
all of the following...LSA and ELSA and yes even SLSA all
in the same final product. The distinction is the process
by which it came to completion.

Gibberish.

A LSA is a LSA based on a set of specifications for the airplane by the
maker, be it a kit or fully built.

None of this changes the fact that if you, as you said you planned to do,
swap props for more performance on an aircraft flown under LSA rules:

Wrong. LSA rules don't apply in Costa Rica.

LSA doesn't exist outside the USA, so your response is gibberish.

If the aircraft is a LSA, you invalidate the airworthiness certificate, and
the airplane is now little more than scrap.

Wrong. The manufacturers have props which allow the
plane to go 170 or 180 mph. The airworthiness certificate
remains intact. Now you no longer have a light sport plane.
It can be sold anywhere to private pilots, or flown outside
of the United States.

Nope, the airworthiness certificate for a LSA is based on how it was
manufactured.

Swapping props to some configuration recognized somewhere, but not as a
LSA, puts the airplane in legal limbo.

If the aircraft is certified, it can never again be flown as a LSA.

Well sure. Same is true if you do what a lot of people
do, which is...put in a backseat. Or take off the winglets.
Or add unauthorized wheelpants. Etc, etc. Only a fool
would throw off the CG though.

Nope, that is apples and oranges.

You can make any modification you want to a cerified aircraft flown under
LSA rules as long as the modification doesn't change the specifications to
be outside the LSA limits.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 16, 10:56*pm, wrote:

No, you can never do any modifications to any LSA; it always has to conform
to the manufacturers, kit or pre-built, specifications.

--
Jim Pennino

Wrong!

That answer is patently wrong and I've given you
the link here to prove it.

The manufacturer may send out paperwork as to
allowable mods, and given the certification, you can
do it yourself.

---
Mark

Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 10:06Â*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:21Â*pm, wrote:

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.

WRONG (again). There can be multiple people involved, as I stated,
such as the person whom you bought it from.

"What if you bought the project from a previous owner who never
finished it?
It does not matter how many previous owners a project may have had -
as long as each owner intended to build the aircraft for their own
education or recreation - if you can document or show documentation of
the work that each did, it is as if YOU did the work!"

http://www.aircraftersllc.com/51percent.htm

Correct as far as registration goes, but to get the repairman certificate,
you have to show you were the primary builder and you know enough to keep
the thing airworthy.

Wrong. You do not have to show you were the primary
builder.

Pulling it out of your ass again, are you?

65.104 (a)

(2) Be the primary builder of the aircraft to which the privileges of the
certificate are applicable;

(3) Show to the satisfaction of the Administrator that the individual has
the requisite skill to determine whether the aircraft is in a condition
for safe operations; and


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.