(USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o

An instructor endorsement for a cockpit checkout is imposed by
insurance companies not the FAR's. I understand your local
instructor's attitude, I'm very reluctant to endorse logbooks for
single seat gliders in which I have no experience.

I have been on the other side of this scenario needing an
endorsement. My approach was to go to considerable lengths to find an
instructor who had considerable experience in the type if not actually
owned one. My objective was to learn enough from him to fly the thing
safely and well. The insurance requirement was secondary.

Bill D

On Mar 30, 9:20*pm, Tuno wrote:
For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o

On Mar 30, 9:00*pm, bildan wrote:
An instructor endorsement for a cockpit checkout is imposed by
insurance companies not the FAR's. *I understand your local
instructor's attitude, I'm very reluctant to endorse logbooks for
single seat gliders in which I have no experience.

I have been on the other side of this scenario needing an
endorsement. *My approach was to go to considerable lengths to find an
instructor who had considerable experience in the type if not actually
owned one. *My objective was to learn enough from him to fly the thing
safely and well. *The insurance requirement was secondary.

Bill D

On Mar 30, 9:20*pm, Tuno wrote:







For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o

Tuno:

You know where to come - TUSC has several instructors, one of whom
owns an LS-8 and would no doubt be happy to help.

Usual beer penalty applies!

Mike

Thanks Mike but Roy C arrived to help out. Otherwise I could not have
enjoyed the LS-8 flight yesterday afternoon.

It's bad enough when the gubment goonies shake regulations at us while
they're shaking us down; I didn't expect to get the outsider treatment
from the staff CFI at the gliderport where I've spent the most money
in the last six years, at the moment I was all hormoned up to get back
in the air after seven months of smokin' videos and soiled Soaring
centerfolds.

No offense taken though, I understand where he was coming from. Sorta.

We race this weekend

2N7O

That's a pretty heavy dose of CYA, all around.

I can see it now.

"Gee, you mean I bought this brand new ASH-31 and no one will check me
out?" C'mon.

Y'all are taking the gummint mindset way too far.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Since cockpit checks are insurance rules and not gov't rules why the
fear of giving cockpit check signoffs? What is the insurance company
going to do to a CFI for a giving a cockpit check prior to an
accident(causal or not)?

On Mar 31, 8:56*am, "
wrote:
Since cockpit checks are insurance rules and not gov't rules why the
fear of giving cockpit check signoffs? *What is the insurance company
going to do to a CFI for a giving a cockpit check prior to an
accident(causal or not)?

As a CFIG, I just make sure the pilot is familiar with the operating
limits, speeds, handling characteristics, etc.
I also like him or her to close their eyes and grab spoilers, flaps,
gear, etc.
In other words, I want to know they are prepped well.
No, I don't believe I have flown everything, yet...

Cheers,
Tim

On Mar 30, 9:00*pm, bildan wrote:
An instructor endorsement for a cockpit checkout is imposed by
insurance companies not the FAR's. *I understand your local
instructor's attitude, I'm very reluctant to endorse logbooks for
single seat gliders in which I have no experience.

I have been on the other side of this scenario needing an
endorsement. *My approach was to go to considerable lengths to find an
instructor who had considerable experience in the type if not actually
owned one. *My objective was to learn enough from him to fly the thing
safely and well. *The insurance requirement was secondary.

Bill D


So how does a pilot taking the first US delivery of a new glider type
ever get a checkout? And If that guy somehow manages it and isn't
himself a CFI, how does the second pilot taking delivery of that type
get checked out?

Seems to me like the spirit of the requirement would not necessarily
require the CFI to have experience in type, or even be witness to a
briefing by someone with experience in type.

9B

On Mar 31, 11:45*pm, Andy wrote:
On Mar 30, 9:00*pm, bildan wrote:

An instructor endorsement for a cockpit checkout is imposed by
insurance companies not the FAR's. *I understand your local
instructor's attitude, I'm very reluctant to endorse logbooks for
single seat gliders in which I have no experience.

I have been on the other side of this scenario needing an
endorsement. *My approach was to go to considerable lengths to find an
instructor who had considerable experience in the type if not actually
owned one. *My objective was to learn enough from him to fly the thing
safely and well. *The insurance requirement was secondary.

Bill D

So how does a pilot taking the first US delivery of a new glider type
ever get a checkout? *And If that guy somehow manages it and isn't
himself a CFI, how does the second pilot taking delivery of that type
get checked out?

Seems to me like the spirit of the requirement would not necessarily
require the CFI to have experience in type, or even be witness to a
briefing by someone with experience in type.

9B

Right....

Because, any "glider" Instructor is qualified to teach in any
glider.....whether he ever flew it or not.....and a "glider pilot" is
qualified to fly in any glider, with or without a 'checkout'....and
the isurance company only specifies a cockpit check by a CFI.....(no
requirement of experience in make in model blah blah blah)

Cookie

At 03:45 01 April 2011, Andy wrote:

Seems to me like the spirit of the requirement would not necessarily
require the CFI to have experience in type, or even be witness to a
briefing by someone with experience in type.

Seems to me the safest thing to do is just call the insurance company,
explain the circumstances, and ask what they would consider an acceptable
checkout. Phone calls are cheap. Insurance claims aren't.

Jim Beckman