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Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel



 
 
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  #51  
Old December 15th 06, 03:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bbutlergps
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Posts: 18
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


kumaros wrote:
bbutlergps wrote:
Kumaros,
Yes please keep me informed. Does this Colt Clone engine manufactored
by Mercedes? Also is it 3 or 4 cyl and how many hp does it put out. And
most important please let me know its weight.
Thanks,
Bill

Bill,
as mentioned in my previous post, the Mitsubishi Colt CZ3
DID is the twin of the Smart ForFour with a diesel engine.
Besides about 80% of their parts, they share the same
engine, a 1.5 liter three cylinder aluminum head with cast
iron block 95HP at 4000RPM turbodiesel made by Mercedes,
says so right on the cylinder head. As soon as it's out of
the car I'll post exact weight data.
Kumaros
It's all Greek to me



Kumaros,
Thanks so much for pointing me in the direction of the Mercedes Clone.
That diesel engine is thoughout Europe unlike the forfour diesel. I see
that the Brits have the Mitsubishi Colt (Mercede) Diesel engine while
they don't have the Smart ForFour diesel model.
Please let me know what the weight is when you get it pulled.
Thanks again,
Bill

  #52  
Old December 15th 06, 08:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Philippe Vessaire
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Posts: 49
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel

bbutlergps wrote:

Thanks so much for pointing me in the direction of the Mercedes Clone.
That diesel engine is thoughout Europe unlike the forfour diesel. I
see that the Brits have the Mitsubishi Colt (Mercede) Diesel engine
while they don't have the Smart ForFour diesel model.
Please let me know what the weight is when you get it pulled.


it is the 3 cylinder base derivated from the 4 cylinder Thielert.

For airplane convertion, you need a stronger PSRU with a 3 cylinder
engine versus 4 ones. I'm not sure you will have a lighter engine
assembly.


--
Pub: http://www.slowfood.fr/france
Philippe Vessaire ҿӬ

  #53  
Old December 15th 06, 08:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
kumaros
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Posts: 3
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel

Philippe Vessaire wrote:


it is the 3 cylinder base derivated from the 4 cylinder Thielert.

For airplane convertion, you need a stronger PSRU with a 3 cylinder
engine versus 4 ones. I'm not sure you will have a lighter engine
assembly.


The Mercedes-Benz A-Class 1.7 liter turbodiesel used as the
core of the Thielert Centurion is all light alloy, the 1.5
liter used in the Smart ForFour and the Mitsubishi Colt has
a light alloy head and a cast iron block.
Kumaros
It's all Greek to me
  #54  
Old December 18th 06, 09:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bbutlergps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


kumaros wrote:
Philippe Vessaire wrote:


it is the 3 cylinder base derivated from the 4 cylinder Thielert.

For airplane convertion, you need a stronger PSRU with a 3 cylinder
engine versus 4 ones. I'm not sure you will have a lighter engine
assembly.


The Mercedes-Benz A-Class 1.7 liter turbodiesel used as the
core of the Thielert Centurion is all light alloy, the 1.5
liter used in the Smart ForFour and the Mitsubishi Colt has
a light alloy head and a cast iron block.
Kumaros
It's all Greek to me


The Mercedes-Benz A Class 1.7 from Thielert Centurion even being light
alloy weighs in at just under 300 lbs. Too much for the 701. Being that
the smaller mercedes 3 cylinder diesel has been put in some planes
including the 701, 601 FK-9 as well as ultra lights but I feel that
they lack the HP needed. The 95 hp in a 1.5 liter turbo diesel engine
sounds great if it can come in lighter than the 4 cyliner 1.7.
Let me know when you get a rough estimate on that weight?
Thanks,
Bill

  #55  
Old December 19th 06, 06:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"bbutlergps" wrote

The Mercedes-Benz A Class 1.7 from Thielert Centurion even being light
alloy weighs in at just under 300 lbs. Too much for the 701. Being that
the smaller mercedes 3 cylinder diesel has been put in some planes
including the 701, 601 FK-9 as well as ultra lights but I feel that
they lack the HP needed.


Keep in mind that the diesel engines in airplanes tend to give the same
performance as a gas engine of up to 25% more HP. Would that make a difference
in the HP figures, in your case?
--
Jim in NC

  #56  
Old December 20th 06, 10:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bbutlergps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


Morgans wrote:
"bbutlergps" wrote

The Mercedes-Benz A Class 1.7 from Thielert Centurion even being light
alloy weighs in at just under 300 lbs. Too much for the 701. Being that
the smaller mercedes 3 cylinder diesel has been put in some planes
including the 701, 601 FK-9 as well as ultra lights but I feel that
they lack the HP needed.


Keep in mind that the diesel engines in airplanes tend to give the same
performance as a gas engine of up to 25% more HP. Would that make a difference
in the HP figures, in your case?
--
Jim in NC


Still haven't gotten any information on the Smart Mercedes 3 cyl. 95 hp
diesel found in the Smart ForFour of the Mitisibishi Colt such as
weight. I did however come across VW Lupo engine. This 1.2 engine is
found in Audi A2 and VW Lupo. It is all aluminum.
Diesel engines

Three cylinder

3L 1.2 TDI

This inline three cylinder is notorious for being the powerplant of the
Lupo 3L and A2 3L, both VAG cars with a low consumption of only three
liters per hundred kilometers (94 mpg/78 US mpg). It is based on the
1.4 TDI version but the block is made of aluminium and the elements are
lighter.

Configuration
Diesel 1191 cc inline three cylinder
Block
bore stroke 76.5 86.4 mm, aluminum
Head
aluminum, 2 valves, overhead camshaft, 19.5 compression ratio
Aspiration
turbocharger
Fuel
Pump direct injection (PD Pump injector, Pumpe-Dse)
Dimensions
100 kg
Output
45 kW (61 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 140 Nm between 1800 and 2400 rpm, 80%
available from 1300 rpm
Applications
Audi A2, VW Lupo 3L
references
Audi AG (1999-11-28). Audi A2 1.2 TDI: The three-litre car from
Audi. Press release.

This engine can be chipped up to 75 hp.

I know, don't believe the chip turners, figure in cooling, PSRU, etc
weight while and there is other powerplants out there.
But I am in for discussion of LSA diesel power aircraft that the power
plant doesn't cost more than the aircraft.
Thanks,
Bill

  #57  
Old December 20th 06, 11:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"bbutlergps" wrote in message
ps.com...

Morgans wrote:
"bbutlergps" wrote

The Mercedes-Benz A Class 1.7 from Thielert Centurion even being light
alloy weighs in at just under 300 lbs. Too much for the 701. Being that
the smaller mercedes 3 cylinder diesel has been put in some planes
including the 701, 601 FK-9 as well as ultra lights but I feel that
they lack the HP needed.


Keep in mind that the diesel engines in airplanes tend to give the same
performance as a gas engine of up to 25% more HP. Would that make a

difference
in the HP figures, in your case?
--
Jim in NC


Still haven't gotten any information on the Smart Mercedes 3 cyl. 95 hp
diesel found in the Smart ForFour of the Mitisibishi Colt such as
weight. I did however come across VW Lupo engine. This 1.2 engine is
found in Audi A2 and VW Lupo. It is all aluminum.
Diesel engines

Three cylinder

3L 1.2 TDI

This inline three cylinder is notorious for being the powerplant of the
Lupo 3L and A2 3L, both VAG cars with a low consumption of only three
liters per hundred kilometers (94 mpg/78 US mpg). It is based on the
1.4 TDI version but the block is made of aluminium and the elements are
lighter.

Configuration
Diesel 1191 cc inline three cylinder
Block
bore stroke 76.5 86.4 mm, aluminum
Head
aluminum, 2 valves, overhead camshaft, 19.5 compression ratio
Aspiration
turbocharger
Fuel
Pump direct injection (PD Pump injector, Pumpe-Dse)
Dimensions
100 kg
Output
45 kW (61 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 140 Nm between 1800 and 2400 rpm, 80%
available from 1300 rpm
Applications
Audi A2, VW Lupo 3L
references
Audi AG (1999-11-28). Audi A2 1.2 TDI: The three-litre car from
Audi. Press release.

This engine can be chipped up to 75 hp.

I know, don't believe the chip turners, figure in cooling, PSRU, etc
weight while and there is other powerplants out there.
But I am in for discussion of LSA diesel power aircraft that the power
plant doesn't cost more than the aircraft.
Thanks,
Bill

My own concern with reprogrammed chips is not so much whether the results
are credible, although that is certainly an issue, but the possible effect
on reliability.

I would expect engine manufacturers program their engine controls based a
compromise between the performance they can demonstrate and the costs of
reliability problems and attendant warranty costs. Therefore, I am less
than enthusiastic about the idea of "souping up" an engine for use in an
aircraft--especially single engine.

Peter
I've been wrong before...


  #58  
Old December 22nd 06, 08:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
karel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"Philippe Vessaire" wrote in message
...

And for 2007, Subaru will built a 2l5 flat four diesel....


That sounds very interesting!
Any pointers /web links?
Indications of cooling (liquid/air) ?
Turbo? (I should think yes)

TIA (et mes meilleurs voeux!)
KA


  #59  
Old December 23rd 06, 02:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bbutlergps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


wrote:
I would be interestedin a diesel in the 200hp range. Is anyone out
there converting any 200hp doesel automotive engines?


You would have to have a pretty good sized aircraft to carry that
weight.
Mercedes engines have been putting into aircraft such as the 172 or
larger single engine aircraft. More information could be found at:
http://www.thielert.com/
This engine here is an Isuzu smaller but interesting
http://membres.lycos.fr/dieselis/
This is a newsletter
http://dieselair.com/

Still looking for that diesel power plant for LSA that affordable,
lightweight, has the hp and torque and turns the engine at normal
operating speed.
Right now I am looking at the VW Lupo / Audi A2 1.2 all aluminum 60 hp
3 cylinder turbo diesel.
Still wondering about the Smart Mercedes 95 hp 3 cylinder turbo diesel
found in the Smart ForFour and Mitubishi Colt. That engine has more
than enought HP that I am looking for but scared of the total wieght?
I still have a couple of other automotive diesel to look at including
the Toyota and Dihotsu (sp).
EcoFly has a very nice slick set up using the Smart ForTwo gas and
diesel engine in the FK-9. These engines at least the diesel I feel
lack the hp. Thats why I am wanting the ForFour 95 hp engine to come in
not weighing too much. I really like EcoFly PSRU, espically the clutch
that engages at a certain RPM. This really cuts down on vibration at
start up, idle and shut down. More information on EcoFly can be found
at:
http://www.ecofly.de/
Hope this helps and I hope that somebody helps me, how about you guys
in Europe =:-].
Thanks,
Bill

  #60  
Old December 23rd 06, 09:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Philippe Vessaire
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel

karel wrote:

And for 2007, Subaru will built a 2l5 flat four diesel....


That sounds very interesting!
Any pointers /web links?
Indications of cooling (liquid/air) ?

liquid
Turbo? (I should think yes)

yes


TIA (et mes meilleurs voeux!)

je mitoute... (me too)

A+
--
Pub: http://www.slowfood.fr/france
Philippe Vessaire ҿӬ

 




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