We Are All Spaniards

Alex wrote:

Doug, please!!! I said there are no trade AGREEMENTS, not that there
was no trade whatsoever!

TRICK QUESTION: what pays the bills, trade, or trade
agreements?


THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".


THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

On 3 Apr 2004 15:51:26 -0800, Alex wrote:

The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard". Your dear politicians decided it was better
to have tens of thousands of innocent people tortured and killed so
you could live comfortably in your cozy homes. Even when there was no
intention of these countries of turning "Cuba".

uhhh. you are so unamerican.

#m

--
A far-reaching proposal from the FBI (...) would require all broadband
Internet providers, including cable modem and DSL companies, to rewire
their networks to support easy wiretapping by police.
http://news.com.com/2100-1028-5172948.html

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:15:50 -0600, Doug Carter wrote:

THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".

well, this is not really anything new. The US holds the whole world as its
backyard, at least they try to.

THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

begin quote
| Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
| talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.
end quote

#m
--
A far-reaching proposal from the FBI (...) would require all broadband
Internet providers, including cable modem and DSL companies, to rewire
their networks to support easy wiretapping by police.
http://news.com.com/2100-1028-5172948.html

Alex, is one sick puppy. Just because he finds someone's ramblings
searching google doesn't make it true. His poison pen diatribes are
really deluded. All he can say is: the U.S. is bad bad bad bad bad.
The U.S., you moron, is nearly 300 million people. Ninety-Nine
percent who have nothing to do with the freqently up to 100
wars/conflicts being waged around the world. These struggles would
occur with or without our involvement. All nations have problems with
operatives in the field. Don't blame us because human life is worth
nothing below Texas. Kissinger was trying to stabilize the situation.
Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. The falacy of Alex's
assertion that domestic U.S. standards must exist outside the U.S. is
very very naive.

pacplyer - out

(Alex) wrote in message . com...
Rob Perkins wrote in message . ..
(Alex) wrote:

I'm afraid you'll have to prove this one with a bit more than
something like the shrill content of "FSTV".

Rob, honestly. Just because you ignore something doesn't mean I have
to prove it to you. Search for the information yourself. For example,
do the following search in google: ["Plan Condor" "CIA"] THere

Nosir. Packing me off to guerillanews.com does not prove your point.
At best, it will parrot your point, maybe supply some supporting
information.

You're incredible, Rob. Google returns 2130 hits and you pick the one
that has less credibility to rub it on my face. Like I'm responsible
for each and every freaking site that Google indexes. You're
priceless!

Ok, I'll do your work for you. The second and fourth sites found in
Google (the first one being the gerrillanews site), a

http://www.counterpunch.org/solo10012003.html
http://www.crimesofwar.org/special/condor.html

From the first:

"Argentina--30,000 reasons to cry Three years after destroying
democracy by instigating the military coup against Salvador Allende in
Chile in 1973, Henry Kissinger was in Santiago for a meeting of the
Organization of American States. There he met the Argentinian military
junta's foreign minister. According to Robert Hill, then U.S.
Ambassador in Argentina, "Kissinger asked how long it would take ...
to clean up the (terrorist) problem....Kissinger gave the Argentines
the green light ... The Secretary wanted Argentina to finish its
terrorist plan before year end." [2] Hill should know. It was he who
served as intermediary between organizers of the Guatemalan death
squads and leading figures in the Argentinian government.[3]"

"Between 1976 and 1983, under the military dictatorship, the
Argentinian armed forces killed over 30,000 civilian members of the
country's political opposition. Around 500 babies of women who gave
birth in detention were distributed among their parents' murderers. In
over 300 camps and detention centres, victims were tortured to death
and then dumped in mass graves or flown out to be dropped into the
Atlantic from military transport planes. Their property and goods were
divided up among their torturers and murderers--over US$70m worth."

From the second:

"Recently declassified documents add weight to the thesis that U.S.
forces secretly aided and facilitated Condor operations. The U.S.
government considered the Latin American militaries to be allies in
the Cold War, worked closely with their intelligence organizations,
and promoted coordinated action and modernization of their
capabilities. As shown here, U.S. executive agencies at least
condoned, and sometimes actively assisted, some Condor
"countersubversive" operations."

And that's without leaving the first page of results. You are one lazy
person, Rob.

Martin Hotze wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:15:50 -0600, Doug Carter wrote:

THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".

well, this is not really anything new. The US holds the whole world as its
backyard, at least they try to.

THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

begin quote
| Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
| talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.
end quote

#m

Vielen Dank, Martin! Ich hätte es nicht besser sagen können.
Tschüss!

WASHINGTON, DC


- A tragic fire on Monday destroyed the personal library
of President George W. Bush.

Both of his books have been lost.

- Presidential spokesman Scott McLelland said the president was devastated,
as he had not finished colouring the second one.

Martin Hotze wrote

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.


We find many witnesses in South America:

http://www.rense.com/general32/abduct.htm
http://www.labyrinthina.com/contact.htm
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/7409
http://www.para-normal.com/compendium/550.htm
http://www.ufoorganisation.com/Repor...y2003No001.htm

The "evidence" is far too vague and weak to be consistent with the reported
quantity and quality of aledged encounters.

I'm not saying this is all false, just that there is not nearly enough to
convince me otherwise.


"Doug Carter" wrote in message
...
Martin Hotze wrote

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.


We find many witnesses in South America:

http://www.rense.com/general32/abduct.htm
http://www.labyrinthina.com/contact.htm
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/7409
http://www.para-normal.com/compendium/550.htm
http://www.ufoorganisation.com/Repor...y2003No001.htm

(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
Alex, is one sick puppy. Just because he finds someone's ramblings
searching google doesn't make it true.

Ok, so you say Kissinger and Nixon had nothing to do with
southamerican dictatorships and their crimes. Ok, I can accept your
disagreement. I have no proof myself, I am only saying what I found,
and I do believe it because it is consistently mentioned throughout a
lot of very different sources. But it could be false, of course, like
anything else.

His poison pen diatribes are
really deluded. All he can say is: the U.S. is bad bad bad bad bad.
The U.S., you moron, is nearly 300 million people. Ninety-Nine
percent who have nothing to do with the freqently up to 100
wars/conflicts being waged around the world. These struggles would
occur with or without our involvement. All nations have problems with
operatives in the field. Don't blame us because human life is worth
nothing below Texas.

Firtly, I never blamed all of US population. I blamed the succesive US
governments for their foreign policy. I'm blaming politicians, not
farmers or salesmen! The sub-human military we got in southamerica are
our own. That we did to ourselves. I never said otherwise. I only said
the US backed it up and helped.

Kissinger was trying to stabilize the situation.
Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. The falacy of Alex's
assertion that domestic U.S. standards must exist outside the U.S. is
very very naive.

Now you're saying Kissinger *did* have something to do with
southamerican dictatorships and their crimes. Okey...

So, Pacplayer, you are making exactly my point! US foreign policy is
not guided by domestic standards, but hey, it was Rob who said it was,
not me! I am trying to tell him and Doug that they are deluded if they
believe the US acts acording to law, human rights, etc, in their
foreign policy. The whole point of this discussion is to show that by
doing so, the US has earned a lot of enemies and a lot of hatred. I
don't think it turned out so well in the long run for your country.
And the rest of the world is paying for that also. And that's a shame.

Doug Carter wrote in message ...
Alex wrote:

Doug, please!!! I said there are no trade AGREEMENTS, not that there
was no trade whatsoever!

TRICK QUESTION: what pays the bills, trade, or trade
agreements?

Doug, you seem to suffer from short-term memory loss. Let me refresh
it for you: Rob said the US interfered for, amongst other things,
trade agreements. I countered that by pointing out that in South
America they had interfered, and there was no trade agreement until 30
years later. Now you tell me that there is trade, which is true, but
completely misses the point.